Sun Tzu - The Art of War

[Woolfe]

In my ever expanding exploration of all things literary, celebrated and/or culturally impactive, I've developed a pull towards Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War' which is I'm told an exceptionally influential tome.

I was wondering if anyone here's read it and if you have, what you thought of it?

Love & stuff,

Ky xx

[princealbertofb]

I'm afraid I'm not that well read, sorry... I'm not even sure that war is an art... War is a bloody mess.

[Amigo]

You MUST read it.

Something you're going to appreciate through out your life.

[Amigo]

I'm afraid I'm not that well read, sorry... I'm not even sure that war is an art... War is a bloody mess.

This is exactly what Con Tzu (Confucius) said when he first heard of Sun Tzu's 'Art of War'.

[Amigo]

Sun Tzu, the author of 'Art of War', died at old age as a pacifist.

In his prime, he was the supreme commander of a mighty nation in ancient China. He waged wars all over the land, and he was victorious everywhere.

He had a 'Way' to fight wars, and it had nothing to do with how to use weapons or kick ass Kung-Fu moves.

It was about how to win the war.

Sun Tzu believed that while war was unpleasant, it was inevitable. People will always be waging wars, and apparantly he was right. There's always some kind of war going on somewhere on Earth.

So he believed that if anyone fought a war, he must win.

Because losing is not an option...

So he studied how past wars were waged... what was the reason for victory... what was the reason for defeat... And he studied how to control the army... how to manipulate the enemy... how to organize men... how to attack... how to defend... how to escape... how to fight.

And he compiled a book, and that is the 'Art of War'.

For him, the 'War' he fought involved thousands of men and the kind of scene you'd expect to see in one of the Chinese movies.

But for us modern readers, who don't normaly go around waging wars with swords and arrows, we can apply the idea to the wars in our daily lives.

Like the war on the road between drivers. Road rage!

Or the war in business. War with your competitors. War with your customers. War with your own business partners.

War with your brothers and sisters. War with your parents. War with your children.

War War War, EVERYWHERE.

[Amigo]

I have to go to the mattresses. I'm going to war.

I'm not sure it's the kind of war I really want at the moment, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but I have to do it, because it's an order.

God... I hate wars...

Trying to impose my will on others.

Trying to make someone do something against their will.

Trying to convince them that it's 'do or die' time.

God... I really hate wars...

[Amigo]

I'm not a pacifist, so I still believe in violence. I believe that there are times when violence is needed to solve the problem. So if I feel that violence is what is needed, I do not hesitate to use that.

But the question is, how far am I willing to go?

Will I go as far as killing the guy?

And I'm afraid I might.

Why? Because otherwise I wouldn't go to war in the first place. If I'm going to goto war with rubber bullets, I might as well shoot myself with a real gun. So if I HAVE to goto war, I'm going with my guns firing real bullets.

That's why I don't want to goto wars.

[Woolfe]

Weelllll first of all, back after quite a while away from here.

Update being: Have now read The Art of War, and definitely agree that it was worth reading. Cheers for the advice on this one.

Muchos gracias.

Ky xx

[Amigo]

Great! You've read it...

I'm not sure which 'Art of War' you read.. the original text (in English) I presume...

Have you read the biography of Sun Tzu? You know... the story of his life?

It's also very worth reading. Especially if you've read his book.

^^

[Woolfe]

Lol yeah, the original translated, unfortunately don't yet count any variations of Chinese among my languages. :laugh:

Will probably have a read of the biography after the holidays, virtually no free time at the mo.

xx

[Amigo]

Woolfe : The story of Sun Tzu's life is much more exciting than his book because he didn't just write a book about war, he lived the wars...

The time when Sun Tzu lived was known as 'Era of Warring States' because all the kingdoms in Ancient China were always at war with each other. China was not unified yet.

It's fascinating stuff.

[Amigo]

smw84 : I wouldn't say they 'invented' strategies... merely wrote down the obvious.

If you look at the strategies in Sun Tzu's book, they are nothing beyond the obvious.

But it takes a genius to notice it.

[true-illuminati]

It is an amazing work, with a stunning look firsthand into the mind of a man who is still considered one of the most brilliant military minds ever to have been born. I don't look upon war as anything short of "a bloody mess," however, war has been a part of human history since the beginning, and to ignore it would be a shame. After all, "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

And also, if this kind of work interests you, look up "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli. A truly brilliant man writing on what it takes to be a ruler. And do not be disturbed by the bluntness of what he says, because if you look past your initial reaction-you will find that much of it is exactly what those in power would do to keep it. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely.."

[Amigo]

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely.."

Do you know what it means?

Coz I have no idea what it means.... absolute power corrupts absolutely... ??

[sox-and-the-city]

It means what it says.

[marshlander]

Do you know what it means?

Coz I have no idea what it means.... absolute power corrupts absolutely... ??
It means that once there is no more opposition a regime is free to do whatever the hell it likes.

[true-illuminati]

It comes from a longer quote. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." In essence, it means that the more power one obtains, the more greedy he becomes, and what he will do to satiate his selfish urges gets worse and worse.

When a person obtains all the power someone can reasonably obtain (absolute power), that individual will use his power to obtain anything he wants, at the behest of all others.

[Amigo]

It comes from a longer quote. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." In essence, it means that the more power one obtains, the more greedy he becomes, and what he will do to satiate his selfish urges gets worse and worse.

When a person obtains all the power someone can reasonably obtain (absolute power), that individual will use his power to obtain anything he wants, at the behest of all others.

Then we shouldn't be having powers. It looks like a bad thing.

I've never read any of the writings from "Niccolo Machiavelli", but his name, I've heard of.

[true-illuminati]

Brilliant man.
Keep in mind, however, that he did lose the power he had held. In fact, he didn't even write "The Prince" until after he was dethroned

[fredv3b]

Indeed, 'The Prince' was merely Machiavelli's attempt to curry favour with the ruling Medici family who had returned to Florence. (Machiavelli had previously been an active figure in the relatively short-lived Florentine Republic.) As such 'The Prince' is merely how Machiavelli thinks a Prince needs to govern if he wishes to continue governing, not how he thinks a state 'ought' to be governed.

[winnie wu]

Yes, Chinese ancient war art . also working for you life.

[hajime.saitou]

amazing book

[flyerwolf]

All of these are REALISM. Another branch of Political Studies is LIBERALISM which can be interpreted as idealism. Theses are the things that would save people.
To win in this selfish world, one has to have realism but morality, love and equality as liberalism suggests has always been the direction of human development.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's why you have democracy to distribute the power.

[Mr. Not So Lonely]

Sun Tzu art of war good book and you may try to find The Five Rings as well