Gay... But WHY?

[drocko17]

Well guys, the big question.
One of the first things that my parents (particularly my mom) started looking into about my gayness when i came out were the reasons, and i also had myself some time to think.
I still can't find the answer... :(

Psychological? (way of bringing up, childhood)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Biological? [Only registered and activated users can see links]
Genetic?
Environmental/Social?

What do you think?? This topic hasn't been touched here yet

[tin_tin_is_gay]

A brain dissorder, some here might get offended, but give this a chanse.
1/10 are gay. If youre gay and have a twin its 50% chanse youre twin is gay.

Another brain dissorder are left handed people. Now Im not a big fan of left handed people, I find them unnatural. But thats just me.

1/10 people are left handed, same thing with the twins.

My 2 cents.

[feelmychampagne]

A brain dissorder, some here might get offended, but give this a chanse.
1/10 are gay. If youre gay and have a twin its 50% chanse youre twin is gay.

Another brain dissorder are left handed people. Now Im not a big fan of left handed people, I find them unnatural. But thats just me.

1/10 people are left handed, same thing with the twins.

My 2 cents.

haha thats smart!

[tin_tin_is_gay]

haha thats smart!

Well it is kind of true. I mean being stronger in yur left arm? And writhing with your "left" hand? Thats sick!

[wouldlikemuscle]

Left Handed and gay... I must be 1 in 100 !

[Udabar]

A brain dissorder, some here might get offended, but give this a chanse.
1/10 are gay. If youre gay and have a twin its 50% chanse youre twin is gay.

Another brain dissorder are left handed people. Now Im not a big fan of left handed people, I find them unnatural. But thats just me.

1/10 people are left handed, same thing with the twins.

My 2 cents.

Well everyone, if my math is right then One penny and another penny equals 2 cents. What does this mean you ask? Well I am Left Handed and Gay so Tin Tin hates me. :astrosmiley2:

[drocko17]

So, according to you Tin Tin being gay is a 'natural disorder' such as being left-handed. And what do you think of straight men that lived all their teenager-years and early adulthood and they suddenly changed their sexuality and turned out to be gay? I've heard of many causes like that, don't you think there's an environmental factor involved?

Any other opinion to add to the list?

[tin_tin_is_gay]

So, according to you Tin Tin being gay is a 'natural disorder' such as being left-handed. And what do you think of straight men that lived all their teenager-years and early adulthood and they suddenly changed their sexuality and turned out to be gay? I've heard of many causes like that, don't you think there's an environmental factor involved?

Any other opinion to add to the list?

They make themselves straight untill they matured. They made a test by making a party and only serve alcoholfree beer, people still got drunk.

People that are young dont even give the thought of being gay. It's common that they realize theire gay as adults when they get raped in prison et c, they get filled with shame.

So we have 2 left handed inhuman freaks that are gay as well? Maybe we can make a poll here? Im normal and bicurious?

[ashleo78]

Why are they freaks ? Just because they're left handed !!

Please play nice Tin Tin, it's those kind of comments that are easily taken out of context and start arguments.

[wouldlikemuscle]

tin tin, wtf are you going on about!?

Being gay, or being left handed is not a brain disorder. You make it sound that being either is a bad thing and that being both.. well, we're just doomed!

Whats drinking alcohol-free beer got to do with people 'turning' gay? People don't make themselves straight either. They might fake their straightness due to fear of homophobic reprisals, but they're still gay.

When you say young.. what age are you referring to? I knew I was interested in guys from 13. And I knew there was something different about me before then too... just couldnt place it at the time.

And wtf are you on about with this people in prison realise they're gay when they're raped coz of feeling shame or whatever. A straight gut who's been raped would probably feel shame too, probably because he couldnt overpower the rapist and the degradation of being raped.

Really... none of what you said actually makes any sense.

Left-handed, gay and proud!!! :D

[tin_tin_is_gay]

tin tin, wtf are you going on about!?

Being gay, or being left handed is not a brain disorder. You make it sound that being either is a bad thing and that being both.. well, we're just doomed!

They are braindissorders, but its nothiwng wrong with being gay.

Whats drinking alcohol-free beer got to do with people 'turning' gay? People don't make themselves straight either. They might fake their straightness due to fear of homophobic reprisals, but they're still gay.

If you see evereyone get drunk, and you think you are drinking alcohol, you get drunk yourself. If you see people being straight, and see yourself like them, you think youre straight.

When you say young.. what age are you referring to? I knew I was interested in guys from 13. And I knew there was something different about me before then too... just couldnt place it at the time.

Exactly, for some the realization might be a 40.

And wtf are you on about with this people in prison realise they're gay when they're raped coz of feeling shame or whatever. A straight gut who's been raped would probably feel shame too, probably because he couldnt overpower the rapist and the degradation of being raped.

Read: Fish, A young boy at a mans prison. When he was 17 he was going to jail. His brother bought him a hooker as a go away present. And he couldnt perform. Then he went to prison and felt shame cause he enjoyed getting fucked. He said it happens to a lot of gay boys going to prison.

Really... none of what you said actually makes any sense.

Left-handed, gay and proud!!! :D

The worst people in history where left handed, Hitler, Stalin et c.

[wouldlikemuscle]

They are braindissorders, but its nothiwng wrong with being gay.

To call it a disorder would mean that there's something wrong.



If you see evereyone get drunk, and you think you are drinking alcohol, you get drunk yourself. If you see people being straight, and see yourself like them, you think youre straight.


I'm not convinced by that reasoning.


Exactly, for some the realization might be a 40.


Fair enough.


Read: Fish, A young boy at a mans prison. When he was 17 he was going to jail. His brother bought him a hooker as a go away present. And he couldnt perform. Then he went to prison and felt shame cause he enjoyed getting fucked. He said it happens to a lot of gay boys going to prison.


From looking at other reviews of the book, It describes a much more harrowing account than gay boy goes to prison, gets raped but feels shame because he enjoyed it.


The worst people in history where left handed, Hitler, Stalin et c.


We were also accused of being sinister (latin for left) and performing witchcraft and burned at the stake, but there ya go.

Gandhi was a lefty... jus sayin!

[drocko17]

huh this is getting marshy guys

That SLOW way of thinking about left-handed people is more of 15th century than year 2007, you shouldn't even be discussing on that!! :tongue: I don't know elsewhere and particularly in Sweden, but here in my country (such a b*llshit of close minded society) nobody cares whether a person is left handed or not! Would be nice gays follow that same path, if we find an optimistic point on the whole thing

[Udabar]

The worst people in history where left handed, Hitler, Stalin et c.

Actually... Most of the Left Handed people in History that were the "worst people" were actually smart... A little to smart.. but smart. They were the ones with all the brains.

[ashleo78]

So what about people like me who are ambidextrous ??

what does that make us ?

[drocko17]

goddamit stop talking about HANDWRITING!! we're here to discuss causes of homosexuality!!
:mad:

sorry:rolleyes:

[ashleo78]

we're here to discuss causes of homosexuality!

That in itself is blasphemy in my books.. there's NO causes of Homosexuality.. and i dont care what other people say.. !!

[spotysocks]

Ufff!

This excruciating analysis of everything bores me to death!! theories are made to discriminate and label people rather explain or understand behaviors.
I agree there are no causes to homosexuality the cause is simple : We are ALL different.

On the other hand i understand Drocko, i ve been questioning things and amongst these also my sexuality. So... i dont know the cause of homosexuality nobody does, there are just assumptions made and nothing serious. From the Psychology point of view homosexuality was considered to be a disorder 50 years ago but now IS NOT a disorder (bad or good), so before someone says it is should do his homework first. :spiny:

[tin_tin_is_gay]

We were also accused of being sinister (latin for left) and performing witchcraft and burned at the stake, but there ya go.

Back then people had morals, and people took things in their own hands. Maybe we have something to learn from history.

Gandhi was a lefty... jus sayin!

Gandhi revealed.

QK35hYIWo

[wouldlikemuscle]

Gandhi revealed.


O'Rly?

Your youtube failed

[spotysocks]

Way :offtopic:

Open another thread if you want to discuss the left handed and hows this is compared to homosexuality.:spiny:

[feelmychampagne]

So what about people like me who are ambidextrous ??

what does that make us ?
Bi.

:rofl:

[drocko17]

So, you mean that being gay is included as an extra characteristic of human race, as having different hair colours, or having shorter/larger limbs (ans penis lol) than the rest, having different face features?? Hasn't it got anything to do with brain and psicology? You'd mean so that being gay is 100% genetic, you ARE BORN GAY? or i'm wrong? what about those stories of guys that were heterosexuals all their teenage years and later they liked men and became gay without having any manifestation before then?

[tin_tin_is_gay]

You know, before there was such a thing as a gay and straight. People fucked eachother. Like in ancient greece and Rome, when all the men fucked eachother. And sometimes dissed the women on some festivals.

Swingers have all girls rooms, and everey girl has kissed another girl...

I dont think we sould forget that, whatever it might be.

[Osiris]

This excruciating analysis of everything bores me to death!! theories are made to discriminate and label people rather explain or understand behaviors.
I agree there are no causes to homosexuality the cause is simple : We are ALL different.

i'd have to agree with sporty socks on this one...stereotyping is just a stupid irrational negative oppinion people form because of the socialisation process...every one is different...its called genetic diversity...thats how the human race has survived for so long....if we were all the same there would be something else at the top of the food chain and not us as we would cease to be or would have a long time ago...

as for changing your mind in later life, its all down to the enviromental factors, if you live in an area or around people which have homophobic tendancies then you are not going to want to segregate yourself...WHO WOULD??? so its not untill they get older and something happens to make them think why am i never truly happy, then they look to themselves for the answer and realise they repress all feelings towards the same sex through fear...well thats what i think at least...i didnt come out till i was 19 and untill then i was dating girls because it was what was supposed to happen...the area i lived in didnt except anyone that wasnt straight and white or local...so seeing what happened to other people that didnt fit in was kinda scary then you get one close call and i start to realise why i'm unhgappy so i move away and start anew....my family are all cool with it for they know it is just me...and not that i choose to be different cause again i say who would?

anyhow i hope all that makes sense??:confused: :confused: :eek:

[tin_tin_is_gay]

thats how the human race has survived for so long....if we were all the same there would be something else at the top of the food chain and not us as we would cease to be or would have a long time ago...

Oh great another Darwinist...:rolleyes:

Why dont you go and climg a three and wawe your tail, you do belive youre a monkey dont you?

[spotysocks]

climg a four tin tin :tongue:

get this [Only registered and activated users can see links] NOW!!!!!!!

[tin_tin_is_gay]

climg a four tin tin :tongue:

get this [Only registered and activated users can see links] NOW!!!!!!!

Thanks! Iv been looking for something like this. Wow I can type in proper English now!

[wouldlikemuscle]

Oh great another Darwinist...:rolleyes:

Why dont you go and climg a three and wawe your tail, you do belive youre a monkey dont you?

There's enough evidence out there to prove our descendence from monkeys.

[Osiris]

There's enough evidence out there to prove our descendence from monkeys.

exactly wouldlikemuscle and before you: tin tin, start to judge others look to yourself...you are on gayspeak telling people that gay people and left handers all have a disorder, thats rubbish...its not proven and so its just your oppinion so if you think antigay why be on this site?:mad: :greenchainsaw:

[drocko17]

actually he said that it was all fine, that anything was wrong with gays BUT that it was a mental disorder (thrown to the bin theory, several decades ago).

but well, im part i opened this thread to discuss as i'm in a part of my life when i need to know from when/where everything comes, my parents also, so i needed to see some points of view. weren't you in the need of an explanation when younger? did you find it? how?

[spotysocks]

There are a lot of theories and i dont agree with most of them; they are just assumptions that point the finger to someone or something. There is nothing or nobody to blame, it might seems as something that needs explanation but in reality it doesn't .As not everyone has the same color we dont all have the same sexuality or preferences. However if you want to read here are some i found in this site [Only registered and activated users can see links] :

Theories of Homosexuality

Psychiatric theories of homosexuality have included the following: that homosexuality is a regression to the earliest (oral) stage of development; that most families of homosexuals are characterized by an overprotective mother and an absent father; or that homosexuals fear engulfment by a dominant mother in the pre-Oedipal phase. Some authorities have suggested that homosexuality may be an expression of nonsexual problems, such as fear of adult responsibility, or may be triggered by various experiences, such as having sexual relationships with members of one's own sex at an early age that prove to be very satisfying. Arguments regarding the roots of lesbianism include disappointing heterosexual love experience, a father who displays distaste for men who express interest in his daughter, and memories of abusive relationships with men.


Many of these theories have been discredited in recent years, particularly by those who cite biological causation. Some researchers have contended that a disruption in the hormonal processes of the mother while she is pregnant may be one explanation. Simon Levay, a neurobiologist at the Salk Institute, has suggested that homosexuality may be related to brain functioning, as part of the hypothalamus in homosexual men is about a quarter to half the size it is in heterosexual men. Subsequent studies have shown that homosexual men react to certain substances believed to be human pheromones ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) differently from heterosexual men. Several studies have pointed to a genetic predisposition governed by one or more genes on the X chromosome.


Other recent studies, while not directly supporting biological explanations for homosexuality, suggest that it may be a predisposition that can be detected at an early age among children who do not appear to have traditional gender identification. Whether it can be easily detected or not, most theorists agree that homosexual orientation tends to arise at an early age. Substantially fewer studies of homosexuality have been performed among lesbians, perhaps because of the greater stigma which is often attached to male homosexuality in many Western cultures.


The American Psychiatric Association no longer considers homosexuality a disorder, unless sexual orientation becomes an object of distress for the individual. In such cases, the individual—referred to by psychologists as ego-dystonic—may choose to seek psychiatric treatment. Also, beginning in the late 20th cent., biologists more openly examined and discussed the occurrence of homosexual behaviors among animals, which has been documented in several hundred species. Such behaviors, which may include courtship, sexual contact, bond formation, and the rearing of young, are found both in wild and captive animals. Many gay-rights activists have criticized the various theories which try to “explain” homosexuality, particularly those that treat it as an illness in need of treatment.

[tin_tin_is_gay]

I'm not anti gay! In fact my dream partner would be a transvestite with big boobs and a dick. You could call me a pervert or something since there is no word for that.

And I know that there is evidence for evolution. But there is also evidence for the bible creation. But there is no "proof" for either of them. So they are both still theories and not facts.

Both have professors in physics, chemistry and biology defending their belief.

If you have time you should all see this video clip, 100 reasons why evolution is stupid. Its pure fact, but there is a problem. Its biased to the bible creation.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[futureRD]

Big difference between evolution and creationism. Evolution is a scientific theory that is generally accepted by the scientific community. Creationism is faith.

Science can never be proven, there is only strong evidence to support an idea... or there hasn't been anything significant to disprove it. There is strong evidence to support evolution through fossils discovered. Could evolution be false? Well, it's a science and so it COULD be determined to be false, but it has yet to be done.

Creationism is faith because it can neither be proven nor disproven. It is based on belief. You cannot test if G-d is there, you just have to have faith and believe. It's more a philosophy.

Also the whole thing about man evolving from monkeys... close but not quite there. Man and ape evolved from a similar ancestor, we are part of the same branch, but just different limbs. . . more like cousins.

Some people will argue if man is more successful, then why do apes still exist? Well, just because one is MORE successful does not mean the other is going to die off. Man and ape have adapted for different environments. Ape has retained strength and size, man has developed intelligence. Both were successful and both have survived.

Man did not evlove from monkeys, monkeys/ape and man evolved from similar ancestors which resulted in us being cousins.

[tin_tin_is_gay]

Big difference between evolution and creationism. Evolution is a scientific theory that is generally accepted by the scientific community. Creationism is faith.

Science can never be proven, there is only strong evidence to support an idea... or there hasn't been anything significant to disprove it. There is strong evidence to support evolution through fossils discovered. Could evolution be false? Well, it's a science and so it COULD be determined to be false, but it has yet to be done.

Creationism is faith because it can neither be proven nor disproven. It is based on belief. You cannot test if G-d is there, you just have to have faith and believe. It's more a philosophy.

Also the whole thing about man evolving from monkeys... close but not quite there. Man and ape evolved from a similar ancestor, we are part of the same branch, but just different limbs. . . more like cousins.

Some people will argue if man is more successful, then why do apes still exist? Well, just because one is MORE successful does not mean the other is going to die off. Man and ape have adapted for different environments. Ape has retained strength and size, man has developed intelligence. Both were successful and both have survived.

Man did not evlove from monkeys, monkeys/ape and man evolved from similar ancestors which resulted in us being cousins.

There are better evidences for evolution than fossils. One is remains, evolutionists believed that Tyrannosaurs Rex was a predator. Recent remains showed that evolutionists where wrong again, that it did in fact eat plants.

Another anti evolution evidence is that most scientist today agree that the simplest of bacteria has a too much advanced mechanism for being evolved from the smaller one cell organisms.

These are just two vague evidences. Evolution was a good substitute to the bible creation theory. But it was also a theory in itself. It will never be proved right cause it is false.

Creationism is false, just as false as evolution. This is typical of people, choosing between two sides and both being more or less wrong. Reminds you of politics doesn't it?

[futureRD]

Evolution has not been proven to be false, it's the most accepted theory produced by the scientific community. If there were a better reason as to why animals mutate throughout history, I would think there would begin to have changes within the textbooks. Could be wrong though... how many centuries was it thought the world was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe.... as of right now though, it is the best reason to the diversity of animals.

When was it said that the t-rex ate plants? All that I've read and kept up with said that it may have not been a predator, but a scavenger. With the shape of the teeth, it really couldn't have eaten much plant matter. Sharp teeth just don't grind.

I also don't believe in creationism, but it cannot be proven or disproven. It can only be questioned. Creationism is not science and therefore can't be proven. It is philosophy, a belief, a faith, but not science.

also, bacteria are one celled organisms. . . the simplest form of life. That could change if it is ever determined if the virus is ever categorized as a true living organisims... anyways, the bacterial evolution is still occuring today. Look at antibiotic resistent bacteria.

[portugal_the_man]

Wow Tin Tin, there are no words for the logic that you are pulling out. The Theory of Evolution doesn't care whether or not creation exists so you can't call it a substitute. There is actual data that has been compiled and observed that generally supports the theory of evolution. The entire point of science is to TRY something, evaluate it, observe it, and report on it. You say that scientists believed that T-Rex was only a carnivore and that they are 'wrong' because recent evidence showed that it may have eaten plants. Well guess what? That's the whole POINT of science, there is a process of re-evaluation, where new information can come out, and this HELPS knowledge along. You say it's 'wrong', but actually re-evaluating and discovering inaccuracies is what makes the scientific process flexible.

You show me some form of scientific evaluation that has been done for Creation, please I'd like to know.

As for the 'origins' of homosexuality; I think it's a chemical and biological disposition. I mean, when I see an attractive guy, my body responds chemically, there is no conscious acting on my part. All those things that happen in my body when I see an attractive guy are tied to chemical reactions in the brain which trigger reactions in the body. I can only take from this that there must be some chemical predisposition that is encoded somewhere in our brain which makes us attracted to members of the same sex.

[WhoTFisAlex]

I believe that all sexual preferences are innate. If any of the three were to be a learned behavior then it would be heterosexuality. Just my opinion. :)

[drocko17]

or maybe some people born gay and others born straight but more predisposed to become gay or bi influenced by environment during childhood or adolescent hood for instance.

[Shadow]

Just to loop back to drocko17's original post (as this thread seems to have taken quite a sidestep as it's progressed), if I may ...

To be honest this is not something I have ever even considered stopping to question as, to my mind certainly, it really doesn't matter what causes people to be homosexual ...

I personally whack it into the same category of questions as "why was I born a boy instead of a girl", "why do I have blue eyes instead of blue", "why do I never, EVER seem to win the office lottery" and so on - these are questions I do not have the answers to, because I am not meant to have the answers to them ...

... that's my view anyway.

I think that sometimes it's actually nice to revel in ignorance - it makes a change from our usually very inquisitive and questioning minds :smile:.

If I were forced to give an answer, I would say that it's more a spiritual than an environmental, upbringing or education-based issue ... but that's just my personal take on it.

Hope that helps babe x

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Jakethy]

I think that it is a genetic disorder, or a different chemical balance in the brain. Disorder is the wrong word, but it is just a different ratio of something in the human system. I am really good with these scientific terms as you can see. I don't really know how to put my thoughts into words... so I am sorry.

[Shadow]

I see what you're saying, but if it were to stem from a chemical or homonal imbalance in the human system, does that not suggest that it could be controlled (like, say Diabetes), by administering some sort of counteracting chemical effect into your body on a regular basis ?

Has anybody considered that it's possible that we're gay because we're meant to be gay ?

That, perhaps, the same thing which decides that we were born to certain parents, in a certain place, at a certain time, is also the calculus for deciding our hair colour, eye colour, the size of our willies, our sexual preferences and a whole host of other things ?

I think if you're looking for a scientific answer to the question you'd have to approach it like a scientific scenario - i.e. ruling out possibilities with logic.

Therefore the first question that you would have to ask is whether homosexuality is hard-coded into the subject on a genetic or almost cellular level, or whether it's something that is learned from exposure to materials.

You could start working from there, but to be honest I don't think you'll ever find a scientific way of explaining it to the satisfaction of all ... there are just too many inexplicable things ...

I think if you were to be able to stumble upon a way of profiling somebody and determining their sexuality in advance, it shouldn't be THAT big a deal to then take it one step further and determine their IQ ... or their general personality, and so on ...

It is an interesting point to debate though, so thanks to drocko17 for asking it :biggrin:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[portugal_the_man]

Shadow: There is nothing to correct chemically. It's like saying that there is a chemical reaction that causes someone's eyes to be green, and that it can be corrected. Corrected to what? Green instead of what? If there is a chemically related structure that makes us gay, then it just IS. The only reason people say that if it is chemical it should be corrected is because homosexuality is made out to be evil, different, abnormal. If green eyes were considered the same, then people would be calling for chemical fixes for it!

[Shadow]

Which is the point I was making :smile: - my previous post and the one you just read were to be read together mon ami x

I am 100% in agreement that homosexuality is neither a defect nor an imbalance in any aspect of an individual's make-up. I would, if I were forced to opine on it, suggest that it is something considerably more basic, considerably more simple and considerably less malleable than people might think.

I would opt for a spiritual explanation, probably along the lines of "it's one of a huge number of considerations that was decided for you - it's not yours to change", because I believe that accounts at least in some measure for the existence of some sort of force or power that DOES make these decisions, and for the decisions being completely beyond our ability to control, sanction, or forcibly change.

Cheers !

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Michael]

Well I think KInsey hit it pretty well. He figured about 10% of people where 100% straight and 10% 100% gay and the rest in the middle, some more some less, some stuck right in between, where pretty fluid depending on cultural, social, environmental, religious and other considerations.

As has been mentioned here just about every culture on the planet, past or present has had same sex realtions as a major part of their culture. Very often it's explained away differently...arab countries and south america for example it's ok for older men with younger men, just not once they get older, or the idea that only the "bottom" is gay so as long as you "top" your whole life you're not gay.....

The idea that it is a "disorder" is ludicrous. Being in the minority doesn't make something a disorder, becasue you take only one specific out of context. There are less blondes on the planet than gay people. Would being blonde then be called a disorder? It's just one more variant on the human condition. Black haired but left handed? Red headed but right handed? The variations are endless.

As well, nobody has ever proven the "concept" of heterosexuality. That's only opposite sex attraction. Most people think in terms of biology. All of us here can reproduce, we choose NOT to, but our abulity is the same as heterosexuals.

So first someone must prove to me, if something MUST be proven, that heterosexulality actually exists. Until then my sexuality is just one more facett of my indevidual existance, as different from others in it's totality as anything or anyone else.

(My dinner is here so I am not going to proof read that, sorry .)

[hellocake]

ok now, im not a religious man. not really. however, if there is a god, perhaps a nice way of looking at being gay is this:

one day, god was sitting on his cloud or whatever, to a look at earth and suddenly noticed, OH DEAR! population is getting a little out o hand. there wont be much room left soon. we dont want to run out food either! hm, how can we secure earth's future? i know! lets make a way for humans to love without making babies.

god devised his plan and put it to action. everything seemed to fit together wonderfully :laugh1: !

now im not one to question it really. if theres something different about you, you arent a freak, your just part of a minority. and u have to accept that, because you have no other choice if nothing else. so we are gay, people are left handed, people are black, people are white, and so forth. perhaps god just thought, if everybody was the same, that would be boring!! a world without gays? we make this place worth staying for!!!!:biggthumpup:

[YoUnGaY33]

well i think you're born gay. that's just based on what i remember from when i was young.

[drocko17]

Each person gets born with a certain 'level' (let's say) of homosexuality, sort of a a genetic potential (that's up to kinsey's theory), but depending on the environment people can develop it in many different ways. Also (i think we've already talked abut this), homosexuality always existed, as well as heterosexuality, but men have always covered it, one of the main causes is religion: the strict model of 'god invented men an women one for each other'.

[ardus]

Not being a scientist or a theologist I can only draw from my personal experiences. When I was young, like younger than 10, I had no sexual identity, when I first discovered my hardons I found I got them from women mostly but had odd times when men made me hard. It didn't even register in my head until I was about 17-18. I didn't have my first experience with a man til I was 21. After that I felt really guilty, then I did a lot of thinking and realized hey guess what, there's nothing wrong with me, I am who I am. Since then I have been very comfortable in my own skin with being Bi, I haven't told a lot of people, but I am quite happy with who I am now and I don't think I was influenced by environment. I am pretty sure this is the way I was wired.

[Michael]

What we should be asking I suppose is WHY the "why?" question. Nobody sits around wondering (or persecuting) for not liking Olives for example, yet millions looove them and millions hate them. Or why some people love some type of sport and could care less for another.

The question of "why are we gay?" is a man made one. The asking doesn't make the reality "intrinsically disordered"...just that some people wonder why others are not like themselves. Same sex attraction has been around since the beginning of time and has been documented in well over 500 mammal species and even birds and reptiles. Something so prevelant isn't disordered, just a variation on the exisiting whole. Having more of something doesn't make it more natural, or Chinese, Indian or Pakistanies would be "the norm" while the other poor sods would be a mistake.

The question really should be "why the question?" None of us are exactly alike. Our sexuality is just one part of an extremely complex whole. Taking one single thing out of the equation doesn't give us the overall picture.

Olives make my skin crawl....where does that leave me?

[cleopatrajason]

my parents thought it was the "devil" in my thoughts so took me to our minister-to "cure" me. it didnt work and now my parents are set on the idea that ive got a "devil" influence. i dont understand them as there intelligent people-my dads a lawyer and my mums a doctor yet then again we are mormons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! apart from me the devil child, lol!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shadow]

One thing that I think is really bad is the amount of pressure people in organised religion place upon homosexuals as individuals to either change or conform, having little- to no-regard for the way that either makes the individual homo in question feel, or how it can make them feel totally devalued as individuals.

I think it's a natural that every child wants to be loved by its parents (fine, as we grow older, sometimes things happen that cross the line and sometimes things get irreparably damaged), and so to put children particularly in that type of scenario is more than just negligent in my eyes - it's both irresponsible parenting AND borderline extortionate - it's one of the more subtle "you must choose" scenarios, and I just can't abide that, sorry.

... oh ... and I HHAATTEE Olives too by the way :wink:.

:cool:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Michael]

The interesting part is that no where in the original bible, in Greek or Hebrew does it say anything about homosexuality. It has certain rules...ie. no sex with temple prostitutes, no sex with a man in the bed of your wife, and a few others....but not about same sex attractions. Over the years in the revised addition they have played religious "telephone" with the bible....changing the meaning subtley to fit into whomever was translatings personal opinions at the time.

The sad thing is the religious pick and choose. Where they take no sex with temple prostitutes as meaning "gay is evil"....thou shalt not covet they neighbors wife doesn't mean no heterosexuality, just don't cheat.

There are some really great websites that give all kinds of interesting slants on the different versions of the bible over the years and that particular times take on same sex relationships. The funny thing is is that nowhere did god ever say NO GAY SEX. There are tons of straight forward rules that leave nothing to the imagination...so if god really cared, why not one big commandment. NO GAY SEX. No wiggle room, no misinterpritations...No means no. But nope, the bible never says that. Just like straight sex there are rules to follow.

Perhaps because he or she doesn't really care.