anti-gay bullying

[tombishop]

A question for users in the UK: Do you feel that your teachers adequately dealt with anti-gay bullying?

I'm a journalist researching the legacy of Section 28, trying to find the real effect it has had on gays and lesbians in school.

I would be fascinated to hear about any of your own experiences.

In my school in the late 80s, we were just told: "There's this disease called Aids, which some people think is the gay plague." And that was it. Hopefully things have improved since then.

If you would prefer to contact me directly, my email address is on my profile.


Tom

[Shadow]

Well, to be 100% honest, there is no law that governs the Channel Islands that adequately reflects that which currently exists in the UK, so I cannot really help you except to confirm that ...

... however, my experience of bullying in school is that if you're going to be bullied, you'll be bullied for some bullsh!t reason, and being gay is just one of many - you might be fat, or wear glasses, or be gay, or black, or talk with a squeaky voice, or have kissed that girl at that party - it really doesn't matter, the bully will find some reason to have a go at you.

Teasing and heavy-handed play is in the make-up of kids - helping them to see that it is unacceptable is in the duty of adults, parents, teachers and so on ...

... and to my mind, bullying is just an acute form of that ... and usually stems from the bully having something wrong with them that causes them to act out in such a fashion.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[tombishop]

yeah you're right shadow - kids usually find some reason to bully one another.

but a lot of people have said the introduction of Section 28 (almost 20 years ago) led to an increase in anti-gay bullying. i'm not sure whether that is true.

and apparently teachers felt less able to deal with it when it did happen, because they were told never to discuss homosexuality.

if this is what really happened, it would have made school a miserable experience for a lot of gays and lesbians. hopefully i'll find out more.


Tom

[Shadow]

To be honest, whilst I've never studied that particular area of the law, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that ...

It often seems to be the case that there's more animosity from "political correctness" style legislation than makes it a worthwhile exercise ...

... but, as I say, I've never studied section 28, so I don't really know what it was designed to achieve, how it went about doing it, what powers it gives and protection it purports to give, and so on ...

Best of luck in your search :smile:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[wouldlikemuscle]

The only anti-gay bullying I received was from another gay (something happened between us on a school holiday trip, when we got back, he made the most of trying to out me, I went into strong denial)! I never went to teachers about it so I have no idea how they would have handled it.

[holmzie]

intersting convo guys, i have never been bullied in school thats because i was the bully.i used to pick on a camp lad and to be honest the teachers did handle it well.so who would have thought i would turn out gay! lifes funny in it guys

[wouldlikemuscle]

lifes funny in it guys


Not for the lad you bullied... I speak from experience! :mad: :mad:

[holmzie]

look my friend that was when i was younger,to show off make my self look big do u think im proud of it? no im bloody not! i was just sayin i was diciplined well by the teachers and actually gt to know the person i was bullying quite well 2.im sorry 2 hear u wer bullied in school. but kids will be kids you will always find bullys everywhere in the world of all ages which is sad and as i hav grown older i hav begun to regret my attitude towards my victims.

[wouldlikemuscle]

look my friend that was when i was younger,to show off make my self look big do u think im proud of it? no im bloody not! i was just sayin i was diciplined well by the teachers and actually gt to know the person i was bullying quite well 2.im sorry 2 hear u wer bullied in school. but kids will be kids you will always find bullys everywhere in the world of all ages which is sad and as i hav grown older i hav begun to regret my attitude towards my victims.


The comment I quoted before just irritated me - considering the reason for picking on him, tis all... you seemed to make light of it. I'm sure you've changed since the old school days... like most of us will have.

[Shadow]

Delicate subject, evidently ... however upon reading through it anew, Holmzie's comments do raise an interesting point, which is to back up what I was saying earlier when I said :-

... and to my mind, bullying is just an acute form of that ... and usually stems from the bully having something wrong with them that causes them to act out in such a fashion.

Taken out of context that could be construed as really harsh criticism and you've only been here a few minutes so I will explain where I'm coming from so you don't feel I'm lambasting you ... all I mean is that historically-speaking, in a lot of instances some of the most outspoken voices against certain things are, in fact, themselves the same thing ...

... so you'll find Clergymen berating Paedophiles and then nipping off with the choirboys, just as you'll find Politicans bashing Homosexuals, and then copping off with somebody in the nearest public lav.

Holmzie bullied a gay lad, and has turned out to be gay himself - go figure !!

It's a crazy world we live in that's for sure, and I'm glad to hear that you (Holmzie) were able to be made to see what you were doing, the effect it was having, and elected to make a change for the better.

We all make mistakes, we all make stupid decisions and, as Holmzie has said, he's not proud of what he did by any means, so perhaps it's just best to let the past stay in the past, and look forward to a better future, non ??

:smile:

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Shadow]

Having said all that, I've just noticed Wouldlikemuscle has already responded, so I really needn't have said anything at all ...

Ho-hum :rolleyes:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[wouldlikemuscle]

We all make mistakes, we all make stupid decisions and, as Holmzie has said, he's not proud of what he did by any means, so perhaps it's just best to let the past stay in the past, and look forward to a better future, non ??

:smile:

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

I agree

Having said all that, I've just noticed Wouldlikemuscle has already responded, so I really needn't have said anything at all ...

Ho-hum :rolleyes:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

lol :biggrin:

[Shadow]

Just lookin' out for ya babe xx

:bighug:.

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Gayboigarry]

In school I get bullied like every day all because i am gay I have been beaten up my bike got nicked then i got mugged then beaten up again pretty much everyday.

also everyone calls me a puff head just cause i smoke weed cause i can not cope with it all my X left me because he said i was moaning to much about it.

and to put the icing on the f***kin cake about 1 week ago i got beaten up out side school just because he heard that i was gay and he did not even know me. lol fucked up world

[fjp999]

sorry to hear that Gayboigarry... especially in London. Seems we really are going a bit backwards than forward in our human heart.. oh well, gotta keep fighting I guess.

Best of luck and hope some things change for the better Gayboigarry :bighug:

[marshlander]

... and to put the icing on the f***kin cake about 1 week ago i got beaten up out side school just because he heard that i was gay and he did not even know me. lol fucked up world
Sadly, 'twas ever thus. Homophobia is one of many excuses for bullying. When I was nine, my family moved and I had to start a new school. I thought the school was great, much better than where I'd come from ... for the first two days. Going home after the second day I was stopped by a much bigger boy I didn't know. He asked me if my name was ------- -------- to which I replied that it was. He punched me in the face. I never found out why.

So to Anthony O'Rourke, who would not remember me among the kids he beat up, I remember you. The memory of your fist is indelibly imprinted on my jaw. May your shamrocks never bloom :cheerleader2:

Btw, Garry, your school should have anti-homophobic policies in place. They can't take action if you don't report it, although I know how difficult that might be.

Hugs and good luck to you.

[zeon]

Hi All,
In school i never suffered bullying for being gay mainly for wearing glasses which i ditched lol.. I bullied a guy in school who when i was 12 had my first gay experience with but i made his life hell because of my denial but now im friends with him as adults which is good.. He was the class clown though and entertained loads of people with his campness.. I have suffered bullying in the workplace when working for companies which included iceland, BP, and my current work i havent experienced any of this... If you decide to do one on workplace bullying heres my experience...

I started working at icelands when i was 17 and i was coming to terms with my sexuality... My locker didnt work and i put my mobile in and a supervisor saw my mobile read messag3es and then shared them with other collegues by texting to their phones from my mobile forwarding it on... After one of the employees showed me i hit the roof handed in my letter and left on the spot manager begged me to stay but i told him i cant work here while his there. After he got sacked i got offered my job back but had found another working at BP..

BP :- I worked at a gatwick terminal and had a prodominantly asian workforce (and thats not really a suprise as every garage seems to have this) and one day one of the companies with gatwick airport ADS pulled on the forecourt to fill with fuel and the worker i was with said "zeon you see that van?? the one with the ADS" I said yeah he replied "Stick and I between the Aand D and its what you got hinting i had aids.. I then replied well the only thing ill say in return to that is that when i shag a guy i can wipe the shit away and wipe it white whereas you.. That shit isnt only on your cock but on your whole body because you were born as nothing more than an imbredded piece of shit..

That didnt go down too well and i ended up being done for racism by my manager who was white and he.... Well got let off the hook so i resigned and as i walked out my boss said... What about the bank holiday periods its our busiest time and we are short staff.. I said


YOUR THE FUCKING MANAGER FUCKING MANAGE YOU CUNT

infront of loads of families and customers :)

kindest regards

zeon

[sweetlad86]

Fair play Zeon!!!

[fredv3b]

Zeon,

Don't let them drag you down to their level.

[huw cymru]

An interesting debate. As I left school in 1982 section 28 was never an issue.I suffered a bit of bullying but that was because I was a fat kid from a middle class family. I hadnt acepted my sexuality at the time and I don't think it caused me to be bullied. I had one friend who was gay and came out to a few close friends by the time we were in the sixth form , and he was bullied a lot, but in hindsight I don't think it was directly homophobic. Rether, because he knew he was gay , at a time and in a place ( rural mid wales) where that was unthinkable that made him feel , and act vulnerable because of the secret he was hiding and bulies have a way of latching onto vulnerability.
I also remember one younger kid who suffered a fair amount of bullying, but I only found out years later he was gay. Again i think he atracted the attention of the bullies not directly because of the fact he was gay, but because his was of coping/hiding was by being something of a comedian, which just made him a target in another way.

Looking back I think that bizzarely section 28 had in the long term probably been beneficial to the gay community. It certainly gave us a cause to rally around, and may have helped ignite the campaigning spirit that has eventualy led to an equal age of consent and civil partnerships.

When s28 was brought in by Thatcher's govermnent , it was done really as a propaganda exercise to show they were dealing with what they portrayed as the 'threat' of 'loony left /militant ' councils tthat were 'promoting homosexuality' . (as an aside as someone active on the left in student politics in the mid 1980's I recall that in fact the Militant Tendency always had a reputation for being somewhat homophobic).

The number of councils concerned were few, largely in inner london. By passing section 28 Thatchers government ensured that the issue of homosexuality , in schools ceased to be 'the love that dare not speak its name' which could be ignored, but then became an issue that every local education authority and school board of governers in the country had to consider, even if only in the context that they had to consider whether they were doing anything that could be construed as breaching its provisions.

By turning what was a local issue in a few boroughs into a national one the tories actually created an argument that eventually they lost.

An historical 'own goal'?

[Gayboigarry]

[quote=marshlander;40471

Btw, Garry, your school should have anti-homophobic policies in place. They can't take action if you don't report it, although I know how difficult that might be.

Hugs and good luck to you.[/quote]


thanks and I do report it but the thing is there is no anti-homophobic policies in the rules it sas there is but I am in year 11 now and since year 9 when I came out all i been getting from the teachers is basically shit they say it's my fuilt or just ignore it and I am always saying time and time again how can I ignore the whole class kill gay people and that what happend in R.E btw lol and the teacher was thinking it as funny

[huw cymru]

Gary,
There are groups who will help and suport you.
Try 'Schools Out' or Stonewall or Kidscape or Bullyinguk all of whom have websites/advice lines etc.

[marshlander]

thanks and I do report it but the thing is there is no anti-homophobic policies in the rules it sas there is but I am in year 11 now and since year 9 when I came out all i been getting from the teachers is basically shit they say it's my fuilt or just ignore it and I am always saying time and time again how can I ignore the whole class kill gay people and that what happend in R.E btw lol and the teacher was thinking it as funny
In which case it is time to up the stakes. It is shocking that your RE teacher did not respond appropriately. Do you have a school council to whom you can take your concerns? If you can swing some weight of peer support for your cause it should help. There will be someone in the school who has responsibility for equal opportunity issues as there has to be for child protection. Try and have a chat with that person. Keep a diary of your experiences. Note the date, lesson, who said what and what was done. Present a copy of your diary to the teacher you speak to and discuss it with them. If you cannot find out who is responsible, get in touch with your local authority. I don't know which part of London you are in, but there will be a "Children's Services" office somewhere in your borough. Ask to speak to speak to someone who deals with "homophobic incidents". That person will be duty bound to do something about it. If the school is failing in its duty of care to monitor bullying (and remember that homophobic bullying now has an extra weight of law against it) they can send in advisers/inspectors who can lean very heavily on the school management to make sure the problems are addressed. If you still get no satisfaction there is always the opportunity to raise the issue when OFSTED come calling for their next school inspection. If you go this route the school will have to do something. It is years since I had anything to do with OFSTED inspections and the process has changed since I did it, but the policies contained within "Every Child Matters" must still be a part of the inspection regime.

In the meantime, Huw has referred you to some excellent sources of support for yourself. Don't forget Childline too.

It is possible to make a difference. I was working in a school with Y9s one day last week. I was running a whole class workshop and looking for volunteers to play particular musical instruments from within the class. One boy was on the verge of allowing himself to be cajoled into playing a large drum. His reluctance prompted one girl to call out to him, "Don't be so gay!" I stamped on that comment very quickly. She apologised and there were no further comments like that from anyone throughout the day. If all adults in the school formed a united front against homophobic language and behaviour I am sure that incidents would be reduced, even if it is probably a bit unrealistic to expect them to be stamped out altogether. Your RE teacher is out of order and is a weak link (one of many I suspect) in your school's defence against homophobic abuse.

Finally, and this may be a tall order, are you doing whatever you can to maintain your own self-esteem and dignity? I know the others are in the wrong, but it is a weakness in human nature to treat with less respect anyone who is perceived as "whingeing". Of course, I realise that there also comes a time when the last resort may be to scream and shout and hold your breath till you turn blue to get someone to notice you. May it not come to this.

It is a pity that this is all coming to a head now. At this stage in Y11 you should be finishing up course-work projects and getting ready for your GCSE exams. I hope these nasty events don't prevent you from doing your best at this important time.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[fredv3b]

When s28 was brought in by Thatcher's govermnent , it was done really as a propaganda exercise to show they were dealing with what they portrayed as the 'threat' of 'loony left /militant ' councils tthat were 'promoting homosexuality' . (as an aside as someone active on the left in student politics in the mid 1980's I recall that in fact the Militant Tendency always had a reputation for being somewhat homophobic)

...............

An historical 'own goal'?

Interesting points. I agree that section 28 was about being seen to do something about a problem perceived by Tory supporters (who, no doubt, were convinced it was a major problem by certain newspapers). If the government had really believed it was a problem then they would have written a decent bit of legislation. Section 28 was in my opinion an appalling piece of legislation from a technical point of view. It banned Local Authorities from 'promoting homosexuality'. No clear explanation was given as to how homosexuality could be seen to be 'promoted'. In addition since Personal & Social Education (read sex education) is by pre-existing statute under the control of the Head Teacher and Governors not the Local Authority it was unclear as in what circumstances, legally speaking, Section 28 applied. Given this ambiguity it was not surprising that the legal advice sought by the teachers unions was to regard the whole area as a legal no go area.

As for it being an historical own goal, that assumes the Tory Party has one mind (and is not like everyother political party in being a loose confederation of warring tribes) and those who had it included in the legisation thought it was necessary for its own sake.

[huw cymru]

Just on the 'own goal' point , wearing my historian and not my political hat I think it that s28 was a good example to show that the old conservative party ( One nation - paternalism - even being acepting of homosexuality as long as it was discretly behind closed doors and largely for the ruling class) was highjacked by the free market revolutionaries of Thatcherism.
From my perch on the political left I have to say that historically the conservatives have survived from the days when they used to be the tories in the 18th Century by being , unlike the parties in the left and centre,a broad church, and one that was able to survive by in fact not by being 'conseravtive' at all, but one that could adapt and change and accommodate.
Homophobia has been, and to a large extent still is prevalent in all political parties .
It isn't open anymore, but it rears its head when it can be used to attack rivals ,either internal or external

[antm55]

Nope none of my teachers did anything, so one day i went up to one of the " wannabe black kids" and punched him as hard in the face as i could, it was wrong but felt so good. Nobody brought it up again. In my school it was (mostly) the black kids who here homophobic and teachers were scared to say anything to them because they would be branded racist.

[DtotheJtotheM]

guys always backed me up against the wall and hit and punched me, they also... forced themselves upon me, chanting almost; "you like that, don't you faggot?" whilst simulating sexual acts on me like mutual masturbation and other acts which are too unspeakable to list here, this happened in the schoolyard in front of teachers who looked the other way and in changing rooms over a period of 4-5 years... And that was before I actually came out.

It's stopped now. Well, the physical bullying has. Now its just almost-too-coincidentally placed comments about fags having AIDS and all that jazz...

*half-hearted smile*

[zeon]

Hi DJM,
I am sorry to hear that you had those comments.. I am horrified to hear that the teachers just turned the other way and said nowt.. You may find babes that in years to come when your age of 24 your find that those bullys who pinned you against the wall and gave you shit may find you on a site like facebook and you may get an apology from them. I know all the nasty bastards in my school most have apologized to me for the way they behaved as we all eventually grow to be stronger.. Jus dont let the nasty bits of childhood follow you into adulthood :-) Keep ya chin up hunni

Kindest regards

Zeon xx

[antm55]

To the people who are still being bullied. I was suprised to hear people actually get physically attacked. Nobody ever laid a finger on me, In year 7 I was just seen as the quiet kid, then in year 8 and 9 people started the whole names thing but I never took any notice, or just laughed at (not with) them. I never felt sad or bad, or depressed or anything like that. Then they realised It didn't hurt me and in year 10, 11 and 12 I became friends with some of the guys just because they had grown up and we had a laugh in classes.

Dont let it get to you, Dont ever feel bad/sad because its nothing to you. Most of the time you find out the ones who start the bulling have tragic home lives which if you are a bitch you could find out about and ruin their reputations and let them see what it feels like.

Again a weird thing was, i never once said I was gay...

and also how come some people actually believe only gay people can get HIV and AIDS?