use of the word gay

[hellocake]

ok on my youtube channel [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] i uploaded a video response to one of crazy chris crocker's videos and id like you to comment on that and maybe hav a little dicussion further here.

does it offend you when people say 'thats so gay'? because to me, its just a word thats meaning has changed recently. it used mean happy. now it means bad, in chavvy terms really. lol, i dnt really let words offend me but how bout u?

[Serfdom]

Words only have the power we give them and, as you say, the word 'gay' has changed meaning before and it will again. I for one am not offended by people using the word 'gay' to describe something lame, happy or homosexual.

This Chris guy needs to get out more and stop living in his bubble lol.

The blog retort was very enjoyable and was a reasoned reply to a somewhat emotive video by Chris. Chris' rant about straight people being the source of all the worlds evils is so simplistic; the source of problems for me stems from ignorance and Chris seems to be full of it.

[spotysocks]

Imo you are wasting your time replying to his stupid video. I dont know this vbloging is the new internet thing isnt it... Anyhow this guy is either
mentally ill or plays a character to get some publicity and something out of it and he did , his vid about Spears was aired in a comedy tv show.

As for the phrase yeah same as you , i dont care what people say.

[Shadow]

A very interesting question indeed ...

From my perspective, when I was a child, all my friends were straight - all throughout my childhood. Consequently, because everybody naturally assumed I was, the word "gay" as a negative used to be banded about all the time by my mates.

"Getting stuck in traffic is so GAY" ... "getting a poor payrise is so GAY" ... anything they didn't like was so GAY ... and to be honest, whilst it makes considerably less of a difference to me now, that type of rubbish is one of the major reasons I took so long to come out ...

Whilst it's true that we should ignore what people say, quite often people underestimate the power of a word, or a gesture ... particularly when it's levelled against a person or persons that are either impressionable or of low self-esteem.

I'm not suggesting everybody should go around watching their p's and q's all the time, as we need to be broad-shouldered enough to see things for what they are, and in I'd say 75% of cases, the person saying it doesn't really think anything of it ... however, yes I do still find it irritating, because it just smacks of real ignorance on the part of the people saying it.

What does amuse me now is that all my straight mates are 100% cool with me being gay ... and WOE betide anybody ELSE that says "xyz is so GAY" in front of me, as my mates are now the first ones to say anything ... it's so sweet ... PLUS now, whilst they do still say it occasionally, they all go red when they realise they've said it in front of me ... which is, again, really rather sweet I find.

Straight people are cool .

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Michael]

This one makes me crazy....

I'm abosultely amazed at those of you who cannot see the implications of this. The word HAS NOT changed, they only use it now as a descriptive for anything CRAP. This means that being gay is such shit that it's the worst thing people can think, so use it to describe other shit things.

So being a shitty homo is now the same as....stepping in dog shit....getting busted....or anything else that is foul or crap. If the word has shifted, unlike other words that become inclusive, it has become even more negative. And like some of those other words....nigger or fag, that were taken back by their respective communities....

GAY has been subsumed by the heterosexuals to not only describe us as less than worthwhile, but to attatch it to anything that is bad. Like those other words, there is nothing redeemable about the use of the word, wuite to the contrary.

As Shadow mentioned, there are thousands of young people who have yet the courage to come out and now not only do they have to hear that being gay is crap, they have to be reminded how crap their sexuality IS a thousand times a day by every stupid little bad thing that happens to people.

This is a phenomenon that I have never seen.....instead of a word becomming less agressive as it becomes more mainstream, GAY has become more agressive.

Try inserting your name instead of gay. "Dude, you totaly stepped in a pile of hellocake! That's so serfdom man".

This kind of shift has huge social conotations....and sadly for us, to the negative. Words have huge ammounts of power to harm. By far most bullies taunt and tease than actually use violence. Hearing the word faggot still today whips me back to my school days and sends an unwanted chill up my spine.

GAY is still GAY. Using to call everything else crap doesn't change that. It just states how SHIT we really are in they eyes of most people. If they use it without thought, that's even worse.

"The pen is mightier than the sword."

[feelmychampagne]

yes it offends me or bothers me to an extent! but well then i just ignore it and move on.

[clubkidz07]

You know what personally i dont think its used now as a bad word but the word that really gets my goat is faggot.I hear the straight chavvy kids calling it each other and it makes my blood boil.I wann go over and give them a swift kick in the balls arrrrggghhhhh!

[wouldlikemuscle]

Don't hate me Michael but I actually use the word gay too when something bad happens sometimes.

I just don't take it to be the same word as gay meaning homosexual. One word having multiple meanings and all that... such as pen could mean a writing implement or an animal enclosure... same word, different things.

However, faggot and queer are two words I hate hearing.

[Personal]

In michaels defense, the word faggot, for example, is suppose to be used to describe a bundle of sticks, only now its commonly used as an offensive term.
wouldlikemuscle, you say you hate the word "faggot" (I'm assuming for when it's used offensively), the same thing goes for the word "gay" being used negatively, when originally its meaning is what, happy/joy, if I'm not mistake.
Personally, I agree, I don't like hearing that word...

[hellocake]

but these chavs n all that dont think of gay people, like dear chris crocker assumes, wen they use the term gay. that is so gay. they dont think that is so homosexual. the word HAS changed, its not jus being manipulated. what annoys me is wen ppl say thats so gay, something along those lines, and becuase im ther, they immediately say NO OFFENCE. i hate hearing ppl say NO OFFENCE. it goes without saying. its only offensive if u take it that way.

anybody watch balls of steel? what was that black guy that went crazy wenever anybody says the word black. on my local news a little while ago a black man had got all offended because an old shop sold golly wogs , if thats wot u call em. they spoke to another blak man, who said its just stupid to be offended by them. they are dolls. yes, they used to be the baddies in noddy and they wer also coincidently black, during a time wen black people were still having a bit of trouble with acceptance - but society has moved on.

political correctness is part of the problem. ppl are afraid to offend ppl and therfor a big fuss is kicked up and ppl read too deep into what things mean. wen rly gay, black, queer, even FAT are jus words and they make no difference whatsoever to us as a community.

[Shadow]

I think the easiest way to redress this situation then, rather than to lean on straight people to become more politically-correct and stop saying "(whatever) is so GAY", would be for us to come up with a term that walks that fine line straight people might find offensive, but which we wouldn't really want them to, which we can use to describe all sorts of things we think are crap ...

... reverse-psychology ...

So how's about "breeder" ... or something like that.

Seriously though, I jest. I agree with Michael on this - I think the danger isn't that we do, or do not, take offense - it's what's actually being promoted, which is that gayness is as crap as anything REALLY bad ... so on a strict interpretation of what's before us :-

If "getting a parking ticket is so GAY" is right then
Being homosexual is as bad as getting a parking ticket ... and I, for one, HATE that. Parking tickets are a f*cking NIGHTMARE.

If "having your favourite football team's best striker fouled in the penalty area and NOT getting a penalty awarded is so GAY" then
Being homosexual is as bad as breaking the rules and not being punished for it. Basically.

I'm not big on political correctness, but what worries me is, as I tried to explain earlier and Michael picked up on, that the connotations are that being gay IS crap. It IS something to be ashamed of, it is something to BE repremanded, and we should all just hang our heads in shame at the ignominity of being homosexual ... and I'm sure you'll all agree, that's not the kind of image we want to portray, as it depicts a bullsh!t reality that we don't fit the mould of ... AT ALL ...

So whilst the only realistic way for us to deal with it is to be bigger than that, and to just rise above it, sometimes it is hard, and (again, as I've said before) I think people - particularly straight people who hold that majority position that is so often taken for granted - do tend to overlook just how important the wrong word can be at the wrong time.

If you're straight, and you're guilty of saying it, just stop and think for ONE moment about how bad you're making somebody feel when you do, 'coz you really can, y'know ??

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[Michael]

But there you contradict yourself.....

You pretend it doesn't mean exactly what you say, then say people ask you to "not take offense". They use GAY for stuff that is crap exactly because gay was/is crap. Nobody has changed the meaning of the word, they have just expanded it to mean everything crap because they think "gay" is just abput the most crap thing there is.

THAT is how it became popular to use and becasue we are the last group that it is still ok to be descriminaotry about. Can you imagine any kids being allowed to say "that's so Jew" or "that's so black."

Using the word gay as they do unfortunatley they are laughing at us and not with us and many of you are not only allowing it, but taking part.

"That's SO gay" = that's so crap. Gay = Crap. It's not rocket science. Try to put as nice a face on it as you can, but that's what it means. What it actually does is change gay as a positive word and puts it in the "faggot" catagory.

They've taken one of the only positives we've ever had to call ourselves and turned it into a negative. Imagine stepping in dog shit and saying "that's SO straight dude".................

But it honeslty doesn't surprise me anymore. I'm constantly amazed at the dumbing down of people today and how so few even see it...or care.

[hellocake]

iv had angry email on youtube from somebody, an american. just a thought, are people more sensative about this over there than us british? obviously people here would still find it offensive but you know.

i just cannot understand for the life of me why anybody can let WORDS get to them so much. even if somebody uses the word gay agressively or whatever or calls me a fag, a queer, woteva u name it. the big C if u like. it just doesn't bother me. what i think people shud kick up a fuss about is wen ppl take action. people use words and call names because they tend not to understand - wen its hate, is wen ppl tend to take action. and thats what needs to be sorted.

does it offend ppl here if people joke about it. a friend of mine at school ALWAYS called me fag. he never had met a gay guy properly before me n hes far more understanding and accepting than he used to be. but he still calls me fag. a lot of my chav friends say stuff like that and its funny. cos i am gay, i am a fag, i am queer i am all of those names. why are they negative. why is fuck a swear word. why is 'shit' a swear word, yes its milder but its still a swear word. but why. its a term for poo, and there fore discriptive for most things. school is poo. school is shit. school is gay. and to be honest i say thats so gay sometimes. now am i some sort of halfbreed? i am gay i can assure u. and as u know, i dont think its anything bad or negative AT ALL, quite the reverse

[Personal]

To be honest, I think you’re missing the point. Although we can continue to post our opinions on here a hundred times over, you can only change the way you think of words through experiencing the reason people use them in the ‘real world’.

It’s not the word, it’s not the definition, it’s what it stands for when people say it and how they say it, their reason/intent for saying it. Get it?

Let’s pretend some 3 year old says the word “gay” just as everyone else does (as an offensive term), that child will grow up using “gay” as something stupid/hateful/bad. I’m not saying the kid knows what he/she is saying, but that’s the point, he/she will be “trained” believing the word for what it’s used for, not it’s definition.

Yes, you’re right, they are “just words”. But it’s when you use them for reasons other than their original definition that it raises questions.
The word “Mother” is suppose to bring an image of a loving individual that bakes you cookies and breast feeds you But for example, the term “your mom” says what? It raises question about some dudes mother. What about his mother? Is she evil? The term “your mom” seems to be placed after an offensive argument, does that make his mother a freak? Well, yes, according to the way it’s being used.

You may not be fazed by the offensive use of the word “gay”. However, you have to keep in mind that you are openly gay, while closet cases hide their sexuality because of the way society labels gays. The use of the word “gay”, offensively, tells closet cases they are not welcome, especially the younger generation of kids. Seriously.

[Michael]

Not just the closet cases....

Listening to some 20 year old go on about "how gaaay" whatever was, without an intelligent thought in their head or any idea about what the word means, what the intention is, how offensive it may be, how damaging, how degrading......

It amazes me even more the idea that something is "just a word". Wars have been started over "just words", people are scarred emmotionaly from years of abuse from "just words"....

I guarantee I could write a post here that would raise your hair and probably bring you tears and drive you from these boards....just by words.

Perhaps it's a generational thing. Those of us who really had to deal with high levels of homopobia when we were young probably see it differently than those who did not.

It's like when people go on about "marriage" being just a word. Words define consciousness, language is what sets us apart from animals and allows us to create, if a picture is worth a thousand words, a word can contain everything....

:-(

[hellocake]

exactly. its planks like 'some 20 year old' that tht just dont get it. the majority of us explore and build our own opinions about things, we dont jus sit there and get brainwashed. I decided being gay wasnt a bad thing, i wasnt taught that by anyone. i came out, despite reckoning on getting slaughtered. luckily it didnt happen.

wars begin because of actions. if people didnt read so deeply into words, such horrid actions woUldnt take place. and YES the english language, alone, is immense. i love the english language (punctuation is a different story) countless words to choose from to describe any array of circumstances, emotions, etc but its you thats reading them, hearing them. its you that places YOUR own definition upon them, eventually

[Serfdom]

I'm going to sound like an old fart now, but when I were young and growing up under Thatcher the word gay was used as a way of insulting homosexuals and to discriminate against us in the various places in society. Its totally understandable if some people were upset and and damaged by the offence which we had to endure.

HOWEVER today the word Gay is evolving to mean 'lame'. At least in british culture it is; I'm not sure how its going in the US, but the Americans use 'fag' as a term of abuse whilst here a sign saying "NO FAGS" would only mean no smoking. Perhaps we are living through a period of linguistic divergence between the UK and US. What bugs me the most about that Chris blokes blog was the overly emotive way he was reacting to it as though hearing someone say "thats gay" was the worst thing anyone could say. Also his calling on death for straights was just a bit weird, really.

But, getting back to the point, words can cause offence. If they didn't then terms like Fuck Off would be meaningless. But its all a matter of context and turning off the oversensitivity towards some people who use language in a way which varies from yourselves.

[Michael]

Idealistic but unfortunately incorrect. You say people form their own opinions but say earleir most people don't stop and even think about using the word, what it really means or what they may be doing or who they may be offending by using it.....Everyone else is using it so "why not?" The real fact is is that most people are "taught" their opinions and only "unlearn" them with great effort and force of will.

Your two paragraphs are so full of contradictions it's almost impossible to debate them.

Why should anyone need to "slaughter you" when they can mock and belittle you a thousand times a day and actually get you to join in?

[Michael]

Sorry, but it's not an "evolution". Nobody mistakes the message when someone says "I'm gay." Nobody thinks, "what? He thinks he's lame?" It's used the same way in the U.S. as in the U.K. Why choose Gay to start clling things lame? Just rolls off the tongue better than the gazillion other words in the English language? NEVER would they have chosen black or Jew...in fact, why use another word at all, since we have words to describe all these "lame" things. Because it IS offensive. Now the answer is "everyone does it so why is it bad?"

No, Gay was chosen because it's the most offensive term young people could think of. So it hasn't evolved....it's been taken from what the majority find offensive...being gay...to using it for other things they find offensive.

I can think of no other word that this has happpend to. Words have been reclaimed by a minority to find strength in opposition and to define themselves, but I can't think of any instance where the majority has taken a word from a minority to use it in such open defiance and simple minded ignorance.

It's like saying there will always be racism so why worry about it?

[cainlawrence]

When people say, "That's so gay" and it is clear that it carries a negative connotation, then yes, I get offended. It's the same thing when people say, "Stop acting like a girl" or something along those lines. Not everyone who says such things are intentionally being offensive--the term "gay" or "girl," when used in certain settings, connotes (to them) a set of stereotypical beliefs that are summed up by just that one word. I don't think it's on par with extremely unnecessary words such as nigger, faggot, cunt, etc. but such statements do have the power to offend (former being offensive to gays, the latter being offensive to females). However, although I find it offensive, people do have the legal right to say those statements (since they don't fall under hate speech laws over here)--but I don't use them, my friends don't use them, and I express my disdain when a stranger uses it.