Obama health care law stands

[pellaz]

I think this is a start to beat down the medical industry complex in the US.
[Only registered members can see links. ]
the pic is so no one here can accuse me of not having a realistic view. No one politician will do you any favor.

[Genersis]

Oh don't you start with the pictures.
I get enough of those on the other forum site.

Except people there consider that to be an accurate, if humorously exaggerated, picture of Obama.
You know.
Communist born in Kenya trying to destroy the US.
*Sigh*

I wonder what the fallout on the other site will be.
Most conservative peeps thought Obamacare was going to be removed entirely...

I must admit, Obamacare...or should i say Romneycare is nowhere near what universal healthcare SHOULD be in my opinion, effectively forcing people to buy health insurance(Or is this a myth?), but i don't think it should be removed without anything to fill the gap.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Its a step in the right direction. Perhaps 20 years down the line there will e a form of universal health care in the USA.

Dismantling the Insurance Company based health system isn't going to happen over night. They will fight, and then its just too big to be undone and rebuilt in short order.

[ardus]

As I understand President Obama's healthcare bill it has a couple main points.
If you do not have your own health insurance you have two options
Option One: Get your own health insurance
Option Two: Use the Government Provided Health Insurance

If you do not exercise one of the two options you are subject to fines and civil penalties.

The main objection most people, myself included have to the plan is that it forces people to obtain health insurance or be penalized. I'm all for the option of a free government health plan for those that can't afford their own, but I am very much against compulsory participation. It goes against what this country was founded on, the rights of individuals to live their own lives in the way they see fit.
Richard

[Lunar]

This still has to go through another legislative branch before it is considered enacted. I personally have an issue with a Federal government mandating something when they cannot even take care of an ever expanding debt. They claim they will fund the initial portions of this system to get it going???

I'm sick of the saturated politics and unecessary bickering over the wrong issues.
We can tackle symptoms all we want but it won't solve the core of the issue. When will politicians realize that.

Capitalism is the culprit so I fail to see how it can be the solution. Good old fashioned greed will bring down capitalism one day and thanks to the insurance companies and their stockholders and the business plan of making more and more money every year...the health care system is now a big FAIL. The government stepped in because it has to step in.

I wish I had taped some interviews with the people I have known in the past 10 years who were dying and thought they had coverage...they lost everything and a few were not covered at all...one for cancer and one for a heart problem because they were pre existing. How can prostate cncer in 1987 possibly be a pre existing condition to having lung cancer in 2008...and grounds to deny treatment after paying into it for a lifetime? Republican push for less government regulation which gives the top 1% permission to enslave you. There is a tiny part of me that hopes the Mayans are right about 2012.

The irony of this stupid end product,...most of the tenets were the Republican ideas...the ones they are now attacking. Most liberals (including myself) HATE this watered down version and resented Obama for backing down so much and basically adopting the Republican plan and abandoning the Public Option.

[TommyinKY]

I didn't think the health care bill was that bad. It had a lot of good points which I feel deserve to be kept. My biggest complaint was the individual mandate. It's really bad precedent to say government can demand you have a product or service and tax you if you don't.

I can see a lot of ways that could be abused in the future for seemingly good ideas or for obvious greed.

Originally Posted by TommyinKY

My biggest complaint was the individual mandate. It's really bad precedent to say government can demand you have a product or service and tax you if you don't.

.

If you have an emergency medical situation you have a "right" to be given medical treatment to save your life (which I agree with) but who is gonna pay for it? I think there should be a Public Option which includes everyone but in this crappy watered down Republican version of Health Care I dont' think it is unreasonable to insist that a tax be paid......the cost of treating the uninsured is now a factor in higher health care costs for everyone else and ultimately the government pays for it as an aspirin can cost 96.00 when billing a government agency (I saw the bill myself).

The same people who are bitching the loudest about mandatory health insurance or taxes would be crying the loudest if they had no insurance and received no medical care in a life threatening situation. Way too many of them have the "I got mine...f*ck everyone else" mentality...the ones who claim to be the "REAL Americans"..BARF.

We are not rocks or islands...for every action there is a reaction. For example... people who do not want to wear a helmet and have a fit because the government tells them they must...do they think about people who have to clean up the blood or the relatives who are taking care of potatoes for the rest of their lives..potatoes being cyclists who were not wearing helmets? What a burden. Can anyone just decide to let the potatoes rot alongside the road because they didn't want to wear a helmut and it is too messy and expensive? Way too may people think it is "all about them" and do not think about much beyond themselves.

Firefighters in some parts of the country will let your house burn if you haven't paid the required tax.

[pellaz]

thanks everyone for contributing here.

i was thinking later today...
If a medical company or professional (Doctor etc) was thinking to contribute to the Obama re election; i bet Obama gets less now.

its important he gets re elected.

[TommyinKY]

Those are good arguments for it's inclusion in the healthcare bill, but I wasn't speaking to the mandates involvement there. Now you have a law on the books that says it's ok for the government to impose a penalty tax if a person doesn't have a product. Since the supreme court has validated this approach others can now make similar laws covering other products.

In theory someone could enact a law requiring people buy a particular class of car and would be fined if they don't. They could institute further medical legislation eg. saying all gay men have to be tested for AIDS once a year if they don't they pay a tax. Or require all Americans with a clean record buy a firearm and be penalized if they don't have one. On and on and on and their defense will be that the government has already ruled that similar legislation was constitutionally correct.

Of course the examples I give are a bit out there and very unlikely to get passed through Congress or make it past the Presidents desk. However the law can also be applied locally at a state level where questionable ethics and associations can creep into policy. It can allow those with significant investments in an industry to bolster their pocketbooks using a similar approach.

Public oversight might be able to deter many of these attempts but the doors open now.

In government any powers you give to politicians you feel would act responsibly will eventually be used by those who won't. And good ideas sometimes aren't.