Census question is about sexuality not sex

[Andy]

A proposal to include a question on sexuality in the next UK-wide census has been backed by trade unionists and the Green party, but caused confusion among some people.

A senior researcher who is an expert on LGBT issues said that any question must focus on sexual identity and not orientation.

The academic, who asked not to be named, explained:

"Some have put forward the argument that such a question involved someone's private sexual behaviour or 'a private life.'

"In fact being a gay man, as opposed to being a 'man who has sex with men' is all about being public.

"Sexual identity is concerned not with people's sex lives but with their identity. That is why the phrase "sexual orientation" is troublesome."

Gay equality organisation Stonewall yesterday joined forces with the Trades Union Congress to ask for questions on sexual orientation to form part of the census.

The next national survey will take place in 2011. It is conducted every 10 years by the Office of National Statistics (ONS) and every household in the UK is legally required to fill out a census form.

On the issue of sexual identity vs. orientation, a Stonewall spokesperson said:

"National Statistics uses the term sexual identity to describe its work in this area, and Stonewall is fine with that.

"We are more interested in ensuring that good robust data is collected in the census on lesbian and gay people, so organisations such as health trusts and police forces can deliver good services to the community."

The lack of a question on the census has led to other social research organisations to exclude questions on sexual identity, often citing the lack of a standardised question.

Most noticeably, the British Crime Survey fails to ask respondents about their sexual orientation, despite government and police initiatives around homophobic crime.

At present, the question about religion is optional and it is thought that a question on sexual identity would most likely also not be compulsory.

It has already been confirmed that there will be an option to record civil partnership alongside marriage on the 2011 census.

Today the Green party called for gender identity to feature in the census.

"We will make these concerns strongly to the ONS in our lobbying," said LGBT Greens spokesman Phelim Mac Cafferty.

The UK would be the first country in the world to include a question about sexuality on its census.

Information about individuals collected from the census is secret for 100 years and only the aggregate statistics are published.

Final decisions on the content of the 2011 census will not be made until the consultation and testing programme is complete and Parliament gives formal approval in 2010.

A White Paper setting out the Government's proposals is scheduled for the autumn.

Last month it was revealed that just one in 100 people described themselves as gay in a government survey into British sexuality.

A further one in 100 describe themselves as bisexual, 0.6 per cent said "other" and three per cent say they were not willing to declare their sexuality to the Office of National Statistics (ONS).

Some failed to to answer the question properly; responses included: "female", "normal", "not active" and "I am OK with my sexuality."

The Office of National Statistics asked 4,000 people but admitted that the results of the survey were "not a reliable estimate" of the gay population.

It is compulsory to return a census form. The job is usually done on a "per household" basis. What if someone in the house has not yet disclosed their sexual identity to the head of the household who will be completing the form?

If the stats are going to be incomplete, how is the data helpful? Consequently, what's the point?

With the current record of security on personal data, I find it difficult to trust these official busybodies. I'm somewhat unclear as to why the Greens, the TUC and now Stonewall are so strongly in favour. There are many households where this whole issue is going to be problematic.

[Sabrina]

I should have thought the point was obvious! As gay male couples tend to have larger disposable incomes on average than lesbians or hettys the information would be goldust to marketing companies.

Cynical, moi?

Originally Posted by marshlander

It is compulsory to return a census form. The job is usually done on a "per household" basis. What if someone in the house has not yet disclosed their sexual identity to the head of the household who will be completing the form?

If the stats are going to be incomplete, how is the data helpful? Consequently, what's the point?

With the current record of security on personal data, I find it difficult to trust these official busybodies. I'm somewhat unclear as to why the Greens, the TUC and now Stonewall are so strongly in favour. There are many households where this whole issue is going to be problematic.

Sabrina's probably right to an extent. Plus I suppose it gives equality type people nice statistics to quote and/or use for initiatives.

In which case, surely the point of this data is to give a measure of open sexualities? And in these sorts of matters results are always going to be fuzzy round the edges, because of the denedance on self awareness, and, as you say, *how* open you are.


Hopefully putting this question into a census will, like andy posted, spread the question across many similar surveys, help towards making the whole different-sexualities thing as commonplace inconsequental as it should be. Fingers crossed and that.

Originally Posted by Sabrina

I should have thought the point was obvious! As gay male couples tend to have larger disposable incomes on average than lesbians or hettys the information would be goldust to marketing companies.

Cynical, moi?

You're probably right ... although Albert and I will be thinking hard about what happened to our larger than average disposable incomes

[princealbertofb]

I still think your sexuality is a private matter and no one needs to know except you and your partners. Wouldn't it be enough to know that a household has two males living in it, or two females (or more???)
I understand what you're saying about making the whole notion of open sexualities more commonplace, but this is not a public health census, is it. Let the health authorities deal with the nation's sexual preferences and habits, because they are ultimately the ones who might be concerned.

[Shadow]

Were I told I had to answer such a question, I would automatically refuse, citing it as being nobody's business but my own.

Were it a choice, then I don't know whether I'd answer it or not to be honest ... probably not, for the same reason.

To my mind, whether the rationale for wanting to ascertain this information by the powers that be is malevolant or sincere is largely irrelevant - as Marshlander has already said, in the wrong hands (even in today's more accepting climate), it can be used as a weapon against people that might prefer to keep it to themselves.

If it is their intention to do a straw poll to find out how many out and proud LGBT people are out there, then fine, but it should be a two-tier question, the first being "Do you mind answering a question about your sexuality ?", with the second only applying if the answer to the first is "No".

I see no merit in forcing people to provide personal data, where it may lead to their detriment (to be assessed subjectively).

... but that's my two penneth ... .

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

as long as you are happy. no one should ask anything from you.. be wahtever you are!!!!

if the goverment asked this about me id just say

depending upon you who are u can drop ya cacks and ur find out... If i like u id screw ya if u didnt i wont but the form side of things is a load of crap.. Its violation of rights and i think this is a pathetic thing to iuntroduce

[BiPenny]

Being a terrible cynic and a pessimist when it comes to issues of government etc and also being a great fan of books such as Ben Eltons 'Blind Faith' and films such as ''V' fo Vendetta' I would automatically answer hetrosexual to any of these questions. Though they would probably find me through here anyway, damn you, damn you all!!!

2011 is approaching and the government has published a draft census return form which they are calling a [Only registered members can see links. ]. Looking through this it seems there is no plan to include a question on sexuality this time although there are plenty relating to partnership status. This rehearsal will be run in three locations on 11 October 2009 - in Lancaster, the London Borough of Newham, and Ynys Môn – Isle of Anglesey in North Wales. This will give the Office for National Statistics time to iron out any difficulties.

However, there is a petition at the Downing Street [Only registered members can see links. ] "calling for the government to challenge the Office of National Statistics (ONS) stance that a question on sexual orientation is unlikely to be included in the 2011 census, leaving us to wait at least another decade before the LGB community is fully recognised on the UK's most important population survey.

Organisations such as the Equality & Human Rights Commission and Stonewall disagree with the ONS position ..."

Whilst I can understand the point of view that Stonewall are presenting I think I probably still disagree with it for the reasons I have already stated. I shall not be signing the petition.

I wonder what the rest of you think?

[fredv3b]

Personally I think that the concept that a minority groups rights are only justified so long as there are not too small a minority to be a very misguided and dangerous notion.

If gay rights are not dependant on there being sufficient gay people in this country to justify it, then WTF does it have to do with the government who I sleep with (or even might want to)?

Gay rights??

Bisexual rights??

Straight rights??

Equal rights isn't that what we should be talking about?

Originally Posted by sweetlad86

Gay rights??

Bisexual rights??

Straight rights??

Equal rights isn't that what we should be talking about?

I do think that is what we are talking about sweets... just some folk have more rights than others

[fredv3b]

Originally Posted by sweetlad86

Gay rights??

Bisexual rights??

Straight rights??

Equal rights isn't that what we should be talking about?

Yes, but that is not the way the world works.