Why are gay guys so bloody annoying to me!?

[jbrowder24]

I already gave my advice, but just want to add that what you say about sexual partners and short relationships and all that.... it's all part of why legalizing gay marriage is so important to me. I do think there are a lot of folks probably not counted in studies because they do realize later. I certainly was not promiscuous at a young age, also having wanted to wait for it to be right, even after I finally admitted to myself I was gay. But I do think young gay culture would benefit from seeing more acceptance and more role models. I think a lot of people act out due to confusion, shame, etc., and I'd like to see that end. I hope no one misunderstands me, as I do also think we should embrace the differences of those that know what they like. Though a few things still gross me out, I honestly don't care if someone is into bondage or furries or feet or whatever. But I do think that some of what has been spoken about here, speaks to a great problem.... and hinsonba is a good example of that problem on the one side... because a lack of overall acceptance and role models does sometimes lead to some to act out, like in the studies.... or vice versa, leads gay men to despise other gay men because of a struggle for acceptance, both with themselves and in larger society. I'm really rambling and hope this makes sense without being insulting.

I would like to admit up-front I probably made some rather poor word choices when initially posting this thread – particularly with the title – and do apologize for that. Instead of saying “gay guys,” I should have said “effeminate guys” in the title. This simple change would have made a huge difference, I think, in how everything else is both read and interpreted. I thought, though, that I made it clear in my post that I was not exclusively talking about homosexual males, but about males in general with the statement, “it still drives me absolutely insane to listen to effeminate males talk and even more-so to watch their body language.”

As SlipknotRlZZ suggested, I “find some of the more effeminate homosexuals overly dramatic and stuff in the way they carry themselves around,” and that sums up relatively well the whole of the statement I was trying to make. While I did not need to state anything from my past, I felt that a few aspects should at least be mentioned simply to show that I am not some ignorant, backward hick making his debut into the queer world – that I do have a decent understanding of sex, gender, and sexual orientation, at least in my opinion. (Oh, and Cardiganwearer, when I mentioned the social deviation experiments (i.e. wearing high heels and make-up in public), I specifically stated that those were “gender bending” experiments, not “experiments in the life of the everyday homosexual.”) I was also trying to show that, contrary to what jbrowder24 stated, I am “comfortable with being gay.”

Notwithstanding my own mistakes in posting this thread, I find it absolutely grotesque that anyone here would accuse me (someone none of you have ever met or even had a lengthy conversation with) of being homophobic! Yes, overly-effeminate gays irritate me (as do people who chew with their mouth open, who text while I’m talking to them, and who express misguided, unintelligible religious commentary, such as Glenn Beck), but not once have I even hinted that I want to change, “control or dictate how other people should express themselves,” and I am appalled by that very notion! I was merely stating that this behavior annoys me and inquiring into how other people feel on this topic as well as asking for their own experiences and views.

As I stated in my second post, yes, the studies are biased (and perhaps, East, if you had taken the time to read what I had written, you wouldn’t have been so apt to jump to accusations of homophobia and declaring your pity for me). Every study, every thought, and every piece of writing ‘has’ bias in it! The existence of this bias, though, does not, necessarily, negate the validity of these findings – it simply means that they should, like everything else, be looked over carefully and taken with a grain of salt. Furthermore, I merely stated that “I’ve seen the research and statistics,” not that I necessarily endorse them! And even if I do endorse these studies, it still would not intrinsically make me homophobic – in the same way that a person who is critical of their government is not intrinsically unpatriotic.

I do believe, as jbrowder24 suggested, that there is a “lack of overall acceptance and role models” for homosexuals, which, in turn, leads to “some to act out.” For so many queer adolescents, they grow up in communities ignorant of queer life and queer issues and with similar parents who would rather disown them than admit to having raised a queer child. As of last Summer, of the 1.6 million to 2.8 million homeless youth in the United States, 20-40% of them are gay or transgender, compared to them only constituting 5-10% of the entire youth population. This homelessness, in turn, often leads to alcohol and drug abuse, victimization (verbally, physically, and sexually), and/or a life in prostitution, among a host of other problems – all of which tends to be overlooked by child welfare as well as governmental and private youth groups. Furthermore, this information is virtually never presented in, or alongside, the studies of homosexual adults!

In my (very limited) experience, many people like to consider the queer community as being similar to a utopia and reject any study or even any statement that there may be some problem or issue as being homophobic at its very core. The fact is, though, that, just as in any other community, there exist social problems! And while I don’t know if this played into the accusations of my being homophobic (I’m resting most of the blame on my word choices), I think this phenomenon should be acknowledged!

While I do find overly-effeminate behavior among gay males annoying, it does not diminish my respect for them as human beings nor alter my belief that we all have the right to self-expression. While I do believe there are huge social problems widespread in the queer community, it does not alter my identity as a gay male, nor my choice to remain an advocate for this community. And neither of these aspects of myself makes me homophobic!

Originally Posted by hinsonba

I am “comfortable with being gay.” ...

... I find it absolutely grotesque that anyone here would accuse me (someone none of you have ever met or even had a lengthy conversation with) of being homophobic!...


...While I do find overly-effeminate behavior among gay males annoying, it does not diminish my respect for them as human beings ...

But not, it would seem, comfortable with other people being gay in a way that suits them.

You shouldn't be surprised that people who don't know you should accuse you of homphobia, your post is all we have to go on. After all, we don't know you.

How do you find overly effeminate behaviour among straight people? I know a man who'd fabulously camp, married twice (women both tomes) raised four kids, has gay freinds with whom he's comfortable so he's not in denial. Would he pass your stringent criteria about how other people should behave.

You've every right to have negative views on effeminate men, you've every right to voice them. At issue is your choice of venue. Slag off effeminate men on a gay message board and what really did you expect?

Your posts here and elsewhere on the boards show a leaning towards academic research for support. You must remember, all that theoretical stuff has counter arguments and I daresay they teach both. What you seem to be missing is that what they're actually trying to teach is critical thinking.

Far be it for me to suggest you lack that critical faculty, because, after all, I don't know you. But I have to admire your capacity for backpedalling.

As I stated in my second post, yes, the studies are biased (and perhaps, East, if you had taken the time to read what I had written, you wouldn’t have been so apt to jump to accusations of homophobia and declaring your pity for me).

I am curious...you said you wrote and studied "extensively" on the subject of gays...did you ever consider internalized homophobia? It is extremely common and actually rather hard to escape. The real problem is that in order to overcome this you have to acknowledge it.

...and this part.....

I also have a good number of gay friends who I view as being good, decent, moral people who defy the stereotypes and the statistics.

"good decent and moral" gay people..the good number that you know .....defy the stereotypes and statistics?????????? What am I missing? You are stating here that "good, decent and moral" gay people are a rarity. THAT is why I am sure you have internalized homophobia. I asked you to define "good, decent and moral" for that reason...

[Rawr]

Originally Posted by hinsonba

P.S. Firefox is awesome! After the second paragraph, I accidentally closed this tab, meaning to close out another, and was able to re-open the tab, saving all that I had written! I love it when technology "simply works."

I approve, Firefox is the best!!

Back on topic: I can understand what you mean at times, but to me it doesn't matter about gender or sexual orientation etc... It's all the same, you get people who you like and others which annoy the hell out of you. Perhaps you've just been exsperienceing the wrong social group of people?

[DarkDaisuke]

Well Im feminine as shit and its not on purpose. Go dknows my friend would have killed me already if it was XD. But why get annoyed with something if someone can't help it? Ive met queens and flamers who do do it on purpose; they mostly do it to get attention no lie as they feel being gay isn't enough of a social divider and they want to stand out even more :/ but if you're going to feel that, how are you ever going to find a partner who might be this feminine? Just saying

[Paul1]

WHAT, I typed out a huge post, the forum logged me out and I lost it ALL. Grr.

Here we go...

I get where the OP is coming from.

Admittedly there is a sub-culture within the fem world that is very bitchy and bullies. It's not cool and we shouldn't tolerate it. My own experiences include extreme rudeness, punching people out of the way, dropping litter and watching waiters pick it up, treating others/myself poorly, and pressuring others to drink/smoke. Punching a guy three times your size is usually a bad idea

I don't know why some bitchy fems bully or why it's sometimes directed at me. I can only assume that they are either jealous of my genuineness, feel threatened by me or are being bullied themselves and don't manage their feelings productively.

For a long while, this lead me to avoid the gay world. I had a very bad impression of the gay community and found wider society just to be more accepting and less judgemental. However, over time I learnt that the less loud gays are usually the nicer guys and it's just a case of muddling through the gay scene until you do find some nice people. I can only concluded that I was either very unlucky as to meet all these nasty people, or that the gay community is too tolerant of this kind of bad behaviour. I'm thinking it's a bit of both.

Admittedly there is a sub-culture within the fem world that is very bitchy and bullies. It's not cool and we shouldn't tolerate it. My own experiences include extreme rudeness, punching people out of the way, dropping litter and watching waiters pick it up, treating others/myself poorly, and pressuring others to drink/smoke. Punching a guy three times your size is usually a bad idea

You are referring to what I call "assholes"...and they come in every flavor, shape, size, color and sexual preference. The bigger and actual problem is stereotyping and generalizing. Why would you let what you refer to as a "subculture" define millions of people and why does their bad behavoir in your opinion reflect on anyone but themselves anyway? It really is and should be about these individuals....not the much larger gay community.

I swear sometimes it seems as though for every step we take forward we take four steps back.

East,

I was just formulating what was going to be a multi paragraph post saying what you just did in three lines.

Paul1,

I get logged out all the time like that. When you preview or submit and it prompts you to log in, just log in, your post will still be there, or [eerie music] perhaps that only happens to me [/eerie music].

[Paul1]

Sure East, except assholes in the gay community seem to be revered, assholes in wider society seem to be smacked down. It's because everyone plays up to the stereotypes. I guess with less gay people about, the assholes can seem more concentrated.

I don't remember saying I defined millions of gay people by these assholes. When I was younger, I did become dismayed with all of my peers busy trying to be scene queens and bum licking the assholes. Luckily for me, I also met gay people a few years older, and they turned out to be really cool.

My problem is somewhat different. Everyone refuses to believe I'm gay. If I tried dressing up I would be called a man pretending to be a woman. Meanwhile when it comes to being gay my favorite fantasy is hooking up up with a good looking male octupus. The thought of being rubbed by 8 tentacles makes me almost pant. If he's well hung I hope I can suck him. The thought of octupus semen in my tummy makes me want to giggle.
Guys there may be other planets. Lets not wait to the last day to get ready. I would like to screw an extraterrestrial. I am ready to today.

[pellaz]

keep in mind the OP Cardiganwearer has a "Self-deleted account..."
no profile means just noise.

Originally Posted by pellaz

keep in mind the OP Cardiganwearer has a "Self-deleted account..."
no profile means just noise.

I was wondering what happened to Cardigan...he was interesting. I am sorry to see he deleted his account. He wasn't the OP though and wasnt' the one who made the statement..it was hinsoba.