SolemnBoy Wrote:Perhaps this is a generation-related thing but I think The Beatles are very overrated. I'm not saying they're bad or anything (I do like most of their albums) but people give them way too much credit. As far as lyrics go they tend to be kind of simple and straightforward (or silly) and I just can't see the "zomg innovative and revolutionary musical techniques" some people are talking about. I also had some random guy from class tell me "Dude they invented the concept album" which is just... bullshit.
Oh well. I do listen to them every once in a while. Although their lyrics ain't got shit on Dylan and musically eh... prefer The Beach Boys.
I completly agree, but they are pioneers of the british pop. It's not bad, but it's too "easy" to listen. It's popular.
A little bit like Nirvana. It's really not exceptionnal, very simple. I think they don't diserve their success but it's "nice" to listen though. It's sufficient.
Ekwarph Wrote:I completly agree, but they are pioneers of the british pop. It's not bad, but it's too "easy" to listen. It's popular.
A little bit like Nirvana. It's really not exceptionnal, very simple. I think they don't diserve their success but it's "nice" to listen though. It's sufficient.
Ughhh. You people....
I heard that you existed out there somewhere, but I guess I just didn't want to believe it.
But could we at least have a discussion about this? I mean most people just say "you're wrong and stupid" and then end the conversation completely. To me The Beatles has turned into one of those things that reached such extreme levels of popularity that any criticism is completely taboo. Kind of like a musical version of The Godfather.
I like The Beatles and of course there's nothing wrong with LOVING them. Something inside of me just cracks when they're called the most innovative and influencial band in history, or when they're being credited as the inventors of concept albums or the world's greatest lyricists. Influencial I can accept since they became popular enough to inspire several generations of musicians. Many of the "greatest" artists that came afterwards list The Beatles as a source of inspiration. But in terms of musical innovation and quality of lyrics - yes, overrated. Nobody's ever really been able to explain to me what made their sound so innovative and unique.
EDIT: Let there be no discussion unless both sides can avoid a patronizing tone.
Talking of the Beatles......I was total Beatles whore. But I ended my Beatlemania. Still Love 'em....But i know now....There are WAY better bands that have existed. Just sayin.
SolemnBoy Wrote:But could we at least have a discussion about this? I mean most people just say "you're wrong and stupid" and then end the conversation completely. To me The Beatles has turned into one of those things that reached such extreme levels of popularity that any criticism is completely taboo. Kind of like a musical version of The Godfather.
I like The Beatles and of course there's nothing wrong with LOVING them. Something inside of me just cracks when they're called the most innovative and influencial band in history, or when they're being credited as the inventors of concept albums or the world's greatest lyricists. Influencial I can accept since they became popular enough to inspire several generations of musicians. Many of the "greatest" artists that came afterwards list The Beatles as a source of inspiration. But in terms of musical innovation and quality of lyrics - yes, overrated. Nobody's ever really been able to explain to me what made their sound so innovative and unique.
I'll give my best argument, and in the end, all I can offer is my opinion. You're opinion is just as valid. And if you don't enjoy the music, then you don't enjoy the music (I hope you know I'm just messing around. Everyone has different tastes. That's what makes horses race).
The first Beatles song I really listened to was Revolution when I was 12. Up to that point, when I thought of the Beatles I thought of mop tops and "I Want To Hold You're Hand." Yuck. It changed everything for me. It changed the way I listened to music. The melody occurs so naturally and joyfully. The fuzzy guitar, Lennon's biting voice, the message. To a twelve year old at least it was amazing.
I'll try to list some of the things I like about them:
Their reluctance to conform. Every album (in their later years) was a complete departure from the last. They took real risks. Sgt. Peppers came out in a time when everyone thought the Beatles were washed up and finished. There was a backlash against Lennon's Christ comments shortly before and the World's most famous band had seemed to retreat from the spotlight. Check out this clip.
They were constantly changing and in spite of being pressured by their fame and the studios, they always created what they wanted and were not slaves to demand.
Their beginnings. McCartney tells a story about the Quarrymen (the original name for the Beatles when Paul was 15) and a song they were trying to learn while listening to rock records sailors would bring in. The song had three chords: A Major, E major, and B7. They knew E and A, but not B7. But they heard of a guy across town who knew B7, so they all pooled all the money they had and bought bus tickets to find this guy to complete this one song. I think that that kind of drive and dedication and self discipline seeped into the passion of their music. Their lack of real musical knowledge also informed their experimentation and often strange chord progressions that no one was doing at the time in pop music.
And uh... I'm getting tired now. Their versatility. I don't think many bands could write "I am the Walrus" "Mother Nature's Son," "Within You, Without You" "Martha" and everything else, and they all sound beautiful. There's a sincerity in music that translates.
A big part of their appeal is understanding their music in context I guess. Not saying that you don't, but I still think that what they accomplished and what they changed is incredible. If I'm being honest, I think a big reason I like still like them so much is an emotional appeal. It's the music that got me through teenage hood and that music is responsible for so much unabashed and innocent joy that I can't help but smile/cry when I listen to Mother Nature's Son alone in my room still.
They are overrated, I agree. And I agree that there are better lyricists, better musicians, better performers, better songwriters etc.... but they did each of those things so well. I just... I just like 'em, you know?
Wade Wrote:I'll give my best argument, and in the end, all I can offer is my opinion. You're opinion is just as valid. And if you don't enjoy the music, then you don't enjoy the music (I hope you know I'm just messing around. Everyone has different tastes. That's what makes horses race).
The first Beatles song I really listened to was Revolution when I was 12. Up to that point, when I thought of the Beatles I thought of mop tops and "I Want To Hold You're Hand." Yuck. It changed everything for me. It changed the way I listened to music. The melody occurs so naturally and joyfully. The fuzzy guitar, Lennon's biting voice, the message. To a twelve year old at least it was amazing.
I'll try to list some of the things I like about them:
Their reluctance to conform. Every album (in their later years) was a complete departure from the last. They took real risks. Sgt. Peppers came out in a time when everyone thought the Beatles were washed up and finished. There was a backlash against Lennon's Christ comments shortly before and the World's most famous band had seemed to retreat from the spotlight. Check out this clip.
They were constantly changing and in spite of being pressured by their fame and the studios, they always created what they wanted and were not slaves to demand.
Their beginnings. McCartney tells a story about the Quarrymen (the original name for the Beatles when Paul was 15) and a song they were trying to learn while listening to rock records sailors would bring in. The song had three chords: A Major, E major, and B7. They knew E and A, but not B7. But they heard of a guy across town who knew B7, so they all pooled all the money they had and bought bus tickets to find this guy to complete this one song. I think that that kind of drive and dedication and self discipline seeped into the passion of their music. Their lack of real musical knowledge also informed their experimentation and often strange chord progressions that no one was doing at the time in pop music.
And uh... I'm getting tired now. Their versatility. I don't think many bands could write "I am the Walrus" "Mother Nature's Son," "Within You, Without You" "Martha" and everything else, and they all sound beautiful. There's a sincerity in music that translates.
A big part of their appeal is understanding their music in context I guess. Not saying that you don't, but I still think that what they accomplished and what they changed is incredible. If I'm being honest, I think a big reason I like still like them so much is an emotional appeal. It's the music that got me through teenage hood and that music is responsible for so much unabashed and innocent joy that I can't help but smile/cry when I listen to Mother Nature's Son alone in my room still.
They are overrated, I agree. And I agree that there are better lyricists, better musicians, better performers, better songwriters etc.... but they did each of those things so well. I just... I just like 'em, you know?
Well I agree with all that.
My argument was merely that they're overrated and that they get a lot of credit for having done things they either didn't do or that lots of other contemporary musicians did as well. I don't dislike them or anything, they're like #4 on my last.fm. I guess we don't really have anything to disagree on, although you clearly like them more than I do.
I heard that you existed out there somewhere, but I guess I just didn't want to believe it.
Sorry?
Wade Wrote:They are overrated, I agree. And I agree that there are better lyricists, better musicians, better performers, better songwriters etc.... but they did each of those things so well. I just... I just like 'em, you know?
So we agree.
I never said I hate them or whatever. they did real good things, I agree, but they're completely overrated because the most known titles of the Beatles are easy to listen and that doesn't mean it's bad...
My argument was merely that they're overrated and that they get a lot of credit for having done things they either didn't do or that lots of other contemporary musicians did as well. I don't dislike them or anything, they're like #4 on my last.fm. I guess we don't really have anything to disagree on, although you clearly like them more than I do.
I probably do get a little obsessive and irrationally defensive. "WHAT?!?!?!? SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE THE SAME THINGS I LIKE WITH THE SAME INTENSITY!?!?!?!? THIS CANNOT BE!!!!"
My liking of The Beatles may be a bit juvenile. I don't know.
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