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The Ex, The Lover and I
#1
Hello all,

This is my first post to any type forum, but I feel that I need a totally fresh perspective into my little quandary. Okay, here it goes:

I have been HIV+ for 12 years and also dealing with major depression on and off since I was a kid. The Ex is HIV negative and we were together in a 6 year relationship. During our time together, my depression got worse and my sex drive went kaput. We became two people that loved and cared for each other very much, but we were not in love and too scared to be alone to end the relationship. We opened the relationship to allow him to play with other guys. As long as he was in bed with me at night, I was fine. So we met The Lover, who was also HIV+, but very sexual. Friendship wise, the three of us hit it off pretty well and had a threesome one night. Afterword is when I started to see the change in The Ex, as if he was losing interest in me. I didn’t care. I was wrapped up in my own little world and too depressed to care. As time went on over a couple months of meeting The Lover, as you can figure out by the names, The Ex left me for The Lover. The Ex’s explanation to the break up was that he felt “too comfortable” in our relationship and that we were destined to go down different paths. Whatever.

Needless to say, I was totally devastated, but somehow I got over it really quick, which was a shock to my friends and family, and from what I have been told, upset The Ex. I guessed that he wanted me to hurt and pine over him more than I did. Overall I think it was the best thing for me. I went on with my life in the best way I could and in this challenging process gained a new positive self-image, got onto some anti-depressant meds that actually worked, quit smoking cigarettes and lost over 100 lbs in a year just by stopping drinking anything but water.

During this year of learning to be single again, I felt I have unraveled all the binds that The Ex and I had, as well as became fast friends with The Lover. The Ex and The Lover eventually got a place together. And I thought everything was fine. I was still really good friends with The Ex and The Lover and started to get the depression under control and think about dating again.

Soon after moving in, The Lover started to confide in me that the relationship between them was not going well, and that The Ex is showing the same type of past negative behaviors that I recognized and begged him to work on, but The Ex just ignored. I felt this was okay he did not have anyone to talk to that could relate to The Ex’s behaviors.
The relationship drama between The Ex and The Lover has increasingly grown since then. The Lover feels that he was used by The Ex to get out of the relationship with me. Then again it takes two to tango, and he has apologized numerous times to me. The Lover’s depression and fear of transmission of HIV to the negative Ex has caused him to stop having sex all together. Again, they have opened the relationship to let The Ex play, but The Ex will not allow The Lover to play with other HIV+ guys he feels safe playing with. It seems that relationship between The Lover and The Ex has gotten to the point where The Lover has stated he is not sure if they will still be together after their lease is up later this year and they seem to have big blow out argument almost on a daily basis.

When I ask The Ex how things are going in the relationship, he blatantly lies and says everything is fine. So I stopped asking. Why make him lie?

When The Lover and I talk about the relationship, I try to limit my input with him, only sharing my experiences the common things The Ex has done to us both, but really trying not to give any solid advice, as I don’t want to be seen as fanning flames to break them up to hurt The Ex for hurting me, or to steal The Lover from The Ex. Yeeeeaahhh…..there is some definite chemistry between The Lover and I, as we both have the feeling of “being safe” with each of us being HIV+ and share the huge fear that we could infect someone, seems to be the main cause for the lack of sex drive.

The Lover and I seem to be bonding a friendship deeper what then The Ex and I ever had. This has also started some discussion about the two of us playing. But, trying to do the right thing, I told him I will not play/think of anything more than friendship between us unless the relationship between them is done.

So I guess the insight I am looking for is if I am I doing the right thing by validating The Lover’s concerns, but keeping my distance by limiting my comments and advice? What about my loyalty of friendship with The Ex? The Ex knows that The Lover talks/vents to me about their relationship. Should I make more effort to help things get better between them or do nothing and let it fall apart on it’s own, as it is looking like it going to happen with or without my help due to The Ex’s attitude about his behaviors. Does there need to be more boundaries with The Lover and I and if so what kinds?

Thank you in advance for reading this. Your comments, questions and concerns are warmly welcomed.

Bear
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#2
Welcome to GaySpeak and i hope you have the time to sit back and stay a while

you know the price of talking to the "lover" is it will slow down you ability to get back on your feet after ending a long relationship. On the other had from what little was in your post I think you two would make a stronger relationship.

I think your path is a good compromise given all that has happened

For me relationships are are not a trivial task and a threesome and or an open relationship would be (for me) prone to fail, if not already in failure mode. Be careful in your next romance.
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#3
Sounds like a tough situation.

I probably should say something like, dont venture forward with the lover etc,
but if you guys are attracted to each other, than maybe its meant to be.
Shit happens, and all is fair in love and war.
That is about all the input I can give on matters like this.

But I know that there are a lot of great people here that would give you good advise Smile
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#4
hello and welcome to the forum mister,
Toi be honest i wouldnt worry about the ex you see with the lover if you feel its worth giving it a go say after the lease is up then come find me if still interested not before and leave him... Its cruel to be kind to be honest...

Kindest regards

zeon x
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#5
Hi Denverbear. Wavey

First. Congratulations on all of those self improvements. Clap

Second, you mentioned depression and taking pills. How's your counseling going? No therapy? Get thee to a therapist couch! Antidepressant pills should be part of a treatment program. These damned MDs (sorry to our doctors and doctor students here, nothing personal) tend to throw pills at depression totally ignoring that no one has 100% just chemical issues, to one degree or another there are situation issues as well. Hell, just being depressed causes situational issues that need therapy.

Now to give you some perspective of what its like to be in a mixed status relationship from the HIV- standpoint.

I'm in a mixed relationship. I'm negative, and my partner is positive. Sex does indeed dry up - For him its a fear of giving me the virus, its also a lot of self abuse - he beats himself up over getting his status. Depression - lots of it, Anger, Denial, even bargaining - he has a long way to go to reach the acceptance stage. We have been doing this for 12 years...

He tells me he doesn't want to have sex out of fear of passing on the virus. But I have some self esteem issues, so I pinch my waist wondering if I got too fat. I look in the mirror and see those fine lines and white hairs sprouting up all over - so its obvious to me I got too old. Intellectually I know that yes, its his dread of infecting me - emotionally I don't know and assume a lot.

He gets a cold - I panic - oh no I never show panic - I'm a man. But inside my heart races and my mind goes into hyperdrive - I wonder if this is just a cold or the onset of a long long fall.

He cuts himself, bleeding a bit, I go get the first aid kit and start doctoring him up 'Don't touch me!' he nearly screams.

Yes, intellectually I know he doesn't want me touching his blood - emotionally I feel like he is pushing me away.

Little things - always those little things - intellectually I know - HIV, emotionally not so much.

Worry. Constant, nagging, in the back of my head worry. What will I do when we reach the last drug therapy and the doctor says 'that's all folks?' Can I cope, can I manage will I be able to take care of him?

Take care of him... protect him. Its an issue. I want to but... well in this I am powerless.

Impotent rage - I hate that I can fight this dragon. I can't take it away, I can't protect him. I hate it... I hate myself for being powerless. I hate him too. Sad A little, a lot sometimes.

I constantly have to remind myself that I am not part of a couple, I'm part of a three way relationship. Its Him, me and The Virus - married for life....

Worry is the most corrosive emotion in a relationship. Unresolved worry, worry that is constant and nagging rips people more than hatred. Worry doesn't just sow a couple seeds of resentment, it plants whole fields, an acre a day... Resentments kill relationships.

It would be real easy to just up and walk out the door. Real easy to hide from HIV and find someone who isn't seemingly so depressed, so hurt. After all I'm not positive, this means the Virus ain't my problem. Right? It sounds logical.

But in truth the Virus is my problem. I am as infected by it as my partner is - no, not physically. Emotionally, mentally even spiritually I am infected. Yes I can get 'uninfected' easily. Just pull up the tent stakes and move on. In truth I have been living with the virus for a lot longer. My brother died from it way back when there were no real treatment options. It infected me long ago.

No ailment is just a physical ailment, when we get a disease, it affects body, mind heart and soul. And often enough those around us also are affected and the disease infects them too - not physically - mind, heart and soul - yes. Most of us humans don't understand how diseases really do more than just physical damage.

You Ex is infected - no not physically, but mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

So Ex meets Lover. Lover looked like a catch, vibrant, so seemingly full of life and in control of his life. I bet the sex was good too. It was real easy to think 'Ah, yes, the problem with you is not the virus, its you.'

Then Lover and the Virus move in. The Virus, pretty much hidden til now (and as you know easy to hide - outside of home) is no longer hidden. Lets see, episodes of vomiting, perhaps too many days of diarrhea (those pills do do nasty things) , the pills - perhaps the dosage tray. The special diet - perhaps even things like an exercise program and yoga and all sorts of interesting things that Virus needs.

Suddenly the Ex is reminded of that third party. Suddenly all of the relationship problems that Ex has with the Virus are there again. Remember, his issues were never really you - his issues were with that hidden, unspoken third lover of his - The virus.

Ex most likley never dealt with his relationship with The Virus. He most likely hid emotions in some closet and took the stance that since his status was negative, that he didn't have to 'deal with' the virus. As long as he denies it, as long as he doesn't confront it and deal with the plethora of emotions the virus gives him and as long as he is in a relationship with a man who is positive, He will have issues.

He got infected - he just doesn't understand the infection and how it works on him.

Lover needs to be aware of what is going on. You need to also be aware.

Don't think that just because you are positive that its going to be easier being in a relationship with another positive person. It isn't. And from what our couple's counselors (yes plural) have said, in many ways two men with the same positive status find it more difficult to live in this three way relationship. Not only are you worried about yourself, but you are also worried about your partner and you end up having that impotent, powerless feeling and end up feeling a lot of other things on top of your own worries.

Therapy: We have gone to couple's counseling several times in the past 14 years. Yeah sure, we have more than just HIV as 'our issues'. However once the therapist brought it up and started getting us to see the difference between those issues that are part of as a couple and those issues because there is that third party in our relationship, many of the other issues got far easier to deal with.

I'm not going to tell you to leave lover alone or to pursue it. I will tell you that you should work on you and get therapy and start working through these other issues that HIV brings to the table.

And regardless of the status of any future partners, as a couple you need to do therapy and work on the issues.
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#6
Hi Bear, welcome to GS Smile
I am sorry I don't have any useful advice for you. I am glad though, that the board is getting bigger everyday, and that the chances to get a good piece of advice is increasing for every member - new and old alike.
I hope you will find here what you are looking for.


B.A., this smiley is way to cheerful for my current liking, but Bighug
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#7
Put your cards on the table, which it sounds as though you have, if the Lover is not happy and the ex is not happy and they have started discussing the relationship is not working then in fairness they have started the self fulfilling prophesy that the relationship will end.

The lover sounds like a good guy, and the chemistry between the two of you seems healthy, so once they've split go for it.
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#8
Are you SURE you're not passively fanning the flames of dischord in the your ex's and lover's LTR? I mean, he kicked you to the curb for the lover, now you have the chance to return the favor. I say this because i was a bit caught off guard when you confessed that you and the lover talked about having sex (due to both being hiv+). Now, all that water is under the bridge, but i have to tell you, i don't think it's a good idea to continue your overt or covert involvement in their LTR.

I don't think it's healthy - and also, i don't think you've fully moved on and being involved with them just prolongs your growth PAST this triad. Yes, i said Triad. Because it sounds to me that, despite your protestations to the contrary, that you ARE now involved in their LTR.

So, my counsel, slowly start pulling back from their LTR issues. Don't always reply immediatly to emails/calls/texts.....start doing stuff with other friends, and when you do talk to them, keep it very superficial.

You are NOT helping the situation. It's not healthy for you or them. Remember the old phrase, "Misery loves company?" Well, it fits here.

Keep us updated
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#9
Let the lover and the ex deal with their relationship in their way, but if you are interested in the lover, when he's single make your move. You were depressed when you were with your ex and the lover has become depressed after being with him, who is the common denominator? Oh yes the ex!
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#10
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