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Unread 7th April 2017   #16
Shouten
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I didn't say americans are demonic, though. But the actions of your elected officials are. And it's not just now! How many wars have been started by the US just for the past 50 years?! How many more did they participate in? Do you know where's the US? Does it border Syria?

There are no evidence, that Assad is the one who used chemical attack. If anything, the whole chemical attack incident and the following reactions would help ISIS and the Rebels. I guess you might symphatize the Rebels, but ISIS wins just as much from a weakened Assad.

I find this whole thing disgusting and what troubles me even more is that this time, much to my dislike, I'll have to agree with Russia - US actions are beyound wrong and terrible.
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Unread 7th April 2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
I am also curious about how our weird relationship with Russia is going to play out in all of this.

And by curious I mean stressed.
Why are you stressed, do you have friends or family in the military or in Syria?

It might sound selfish, but I couldnt care less about this. On Monday I will still wake up and go to work. The war in Iraq didnt affect me, the ongoing war in Afghanistan doesnt affect me, and this future war in Syria wont affect me either. We should just go on about our lives as best we can. Stuff like this is why I havent joined the military.
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Unread 7th April 2017   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shouten View Post
I didn't say americans are demonic, though. But the actions of your elected officials are. And it's not just now! How many wars have been started by the US just for the past 50 years?! How many more did they participate in? Do you know where's the US? Does it border Syria?

There are no evidence, that Assad is the one who used chemical attack. If anything, the whole chemical attack incident and the following reactions would help ISIS and the Rebels. I guess you might symphatize the Rebels, but ISIS wins just as much from a weakened Assad.

I find this whole thing disgusting and what troubles me even more is that this time, much to my dislike, I'll have to agree with Russia - US actions are beyound wrong and terrible.
I'm not about to defend the motives behind a lot of US intervention in the past century, I'm absolutely not going to suggest Trump has any strategy or idea about what he's doing. Or that he is not going to get us in there and make the whole situation 100% more fucked. And I'm not going to try to simplify this to good rebels vs bad government - especially after the UN has declared all sides guilty of war crimes after what happened in Aleppo.

I've never been to Syria, I'm not well informed on its current situation or its history, and I don't have a political science background or anything like that. But I have been following what's been going down since the Arab Spring. The UN seemed pretty sure that Assad has used chemical weapons on his people before, though they do deny that too. But I personally don't know for sure either way or have any authority on my own to claim to.

But as a human being, one who feels for others strongly, can say with certainty, the civilians of Syria have been used as pawns by all sides and are in the middle of a worsening humanitarian crisis. Call me naive, but I am not yet so cynical as to believe that the US, or other international powers have absolutely no place in intervening in such cases. Gathering international support and all that first would be much better than acting impulsively seemingly after watching a tv show report on the dead children of Syria, yes. But is it better not to act at all?

This is a shit situation no matter how you look at it, but are we going to keep drawing red lines and then doing nothing as they are crossed and making empty threats? Should we actually try to be an isolationist country and just withdrawal all aid and personally, military or otherwise, close all our embassy's and just wall ourselves off? What responsibility, as a powerful, wealthy country so we have to en it comes to stepping in?

I guess what I'm hung up on is that these are actual humans, this is an ongoing humanitarian crisis with global repercussions. There are people there who need help. So much tells me not to trust the is's motives, to view Syria through the lenses of the other grand fuck ups of the past, to demonized Trump for an uncalculated and rash move. But there's this part of me that is like, all that aside, something has to be done though, right?

I do t know guys, I'm really disturbed by all this. Especially now that we are pointing fingers to Russia and the Russians are sending ships towards ours (or at least last I read).


Long story short, I don't think it's evil of us to be getting involved and it's too late to think about what the most appropriate way to get involved could have been. But at least right now in this moment, from my safe, stable bubble, part of me is glad we are finally stepping in. But maybe I'll be eating those words soon.


And at the very least, if WW3 is about to start, at least it wasn't launched by some fucking tweet though. That's how I figured it'd all go down. At least this is somewhat of a worthy cause.
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Unread 7th April 2017   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
Why are you stressed, do you have friends or family in the military or in Syria?

It might sound selfish, but I couldnt care less about this. On Monday I will still wake up and go to work. The war in Iraq didnt affect me, the ongoing war in Afghanistan doesnt affect me, and this future war in Syria wont affect me either. We should just go on about our lives as best we can. Stuff like this is why I havent joined the military.
I guess I'm a sensitive little snowflake. But I care about things outside of my direct experience.
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Unread 7th April 2017   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy View Post
Why are you stressed, do you have friends or family in the military or in Syria?

It might sound selfish, but I couldnt care less about this. On Monday I will still wake up and go to work. The war in Iraq didnt affect me, the ongoing war in Afghanistan doesnt affect me, and this future war in Syria wont affect me either. We should just go on about our lives as best we can. Stuff like this is why I havent joined the military.
Also if this escalates into something big between the USA and Russia, it's not just us fighting small countries in far off countries most Americans can't even put on a map, that don't have the means to retaliate against us on a major scale in our own country. That stresses me out about Russia. I'm a NYer, i remember clearly what it feels like to have my city attacked and not know what is going on besides fear and panic. I don't want to ever feel that again and maybe that experience has left me with some empathy with people who live with that as a daily reality.
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Unread 7th April 2017   #21
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There's a lot to be concerned about with this situation. I don't have a poli-sci. background, but I like to follow this and know the details. @Zen is absolutely correct about lying to go to war, Gulf of Tonkin being the most well known of these. There are other examples such as the USS Maine, a Kuwaiti diplomats daughter lying to Congress to push for the first Gulf War, and ad nauseum. All of which are factually verifiable. There are of course secret coups supported by the U.S., or orchestrated. A war was started over bananas, BANANAS! The Syrian Civil War has been going on since 2010 with thousands dead and millions displaced. Initially, the war was going to end with Assad putting down the resistance, but the U.S. stepped in to back the rebels. Assad gave up his chemical weapons 2 years ago in a deal brokered by the French if I remember correctly. ISIS is close to being defeated again, and now and attack was made against Assad. Now Assad is unquestionably guilty of war crimes, but capturing him and trying him would cause thousands more deaths and who knows what geopolitical problems. As it stands, it's not Assad and ISIS, there are about another 4 rebel groups fighting of which Al Qaeda is also one (referred to as Al Nusra). The saddest thing is that it has been the official policy of the U.S. to support Al Nusra. When I was younger, I really thought all the talk of corruption and war was nonsense, but I see now how true it really is.
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Zen (7th April 2017)
Unread 7th April 2017   #22
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I like the way Good Will Hunting encapsulates the contemporary global situation in late capitalism/ modernity. "Why shouldnt I work forthe NSA?"

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Unread 7th April 2017   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emiliano View Post
I guess I'm a sensitive little snowflake. But I care about things outside of my direct experience.
I dont want you to think Im attacking you. I just saying focus on the things you can control. Whatever else will be, will be there is nothing you can do to change it. I guess Im the weird one though for not caring, people have told me this my whole life

BTW please stop using the word snowflake, its so ugh! I hear it way too much from the old dickheads I work with.
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Unread 8th April 2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootaloo View Post
Don't judge us by our "elected" officials.
Why shouldn't anyone judge us by our elected officials? And I'm assuming your use of quotation marks is meant as emphasis of that clear-cut fact? Even here on this forum, certain elements elicited much support for our elected officials. That these elements have all suddenly decided to shut their big, fat traps is largely irrelevant.

I will say that the lopsided idea that U.S. evil, everyone else angelic just makes me appreciate isolationist rhetoric that much more.
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Unread 8th April 2017   #25
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@Emiliano
Attacking Syria is a game of interests, that has nothing to do with humanity and especially with freakin LAW. Whatever happens in Syria, it's up to it's people to sort it out. I still see no reason for outside intervention aside from the obvious one - power/money.
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