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A voting reform I'd like to see
#1
This:

http://www.fairvote.org/what-is-irv/#.UEQrUKN0OdF

I got involved with helping to get signatures for this years ago but despite visibility and getting signatures the media ignored us (just as I heard happened everywhere else across the country where similar efforts were taking place)...as a result people didn't remember us and it also burdened us with explaining it (and most people are too busy to listen for more than a minute or prefer politics to be explained in bumper sticker slogans or are just not interested in learning anything new). Of course the people who own the media (and most politicians in both major parties) wouldn't want any kind of reform like this so I'm not surprised.

Most people I know of who refuse to vote refuse because they feel those 2 parties are their only choices and they dislike both (even if they sympathize with one they may still find it too untrustworthy) and so they don't bother...and IIRC, only about 40% of those eligible to vote do so. And even many who vote Democrat or Republican are "voting the lesser evil," not for a candidate they actually believe in, so even if this reform didn't bring in a significant number of new voters eager to vote "third party" it could still shake things up significantly and demand more accountability from the big 2 (who are currently all too willing to throw those who vote for them under the bus because after all, what are you going to do, vote for the OTHER party?).

Of course both major parties and their patrons would fight this to the bitter end so I don't think it will ever happen without a major movement for it (convenient for those opposed to it owning most of the American media). Still, for what it's worth, I'm sharing.

Oh, and added bonus, I'd like to see voters have to take a competency test (showing recognition of basic critical thinking skills and propaganda techniques simple enough for a layman to easily understand as well as answering questions showing a voter has read the pros/cons of the issue or at least knows the details of what it's about and stated goals as well as a politicians voting record), though ONLY IF it could be done in such a way as to not disenfranchise voters (I have no doubt the unscrupulous would try to get in on making the test to disenfranchise voters not likely to vote the way they want so this would have to be done with the utmost care to prevent abuse). Of course this would disenfranchise a majority of voters (what some of us call "the stupid vote" that both major parties aggressively pursue), though hopefully those who lost the right to vote would then improve themselves (and come to learn what they're actually voting on as well as how they're being manipulated) so they could vote again and stations like FOX and MSNBC would have to actually INFORM rather than merely manipulate, and viewers would come to see how such sources manipulate rather than inform them.
#2
I agree with IRV but not testing. I wouldn't do it. It's an insult to assume a grown man or woman capable of getting the required ID, and completing registrations lacks the intelligence to make themselves aware of the issues that matter to them as an individual. I doubt many voters care about every issue, we each vote based on what is important to us.

For some, that is simply what party the person we vote for is representing. For some it's a few key issues. Expecting us to know about every issue is ridiculous.

For example I could care less what any of them states or has voted on as far as the space program goes, or as far as abortion goes, or much of anything except guns, LGBT, taxes, federal spending and, healthcare. I'm going to vote for the one that comes the closest to sharing my views on the most of those things. The rest, if you asked me on election day, you'd get "Don't know, don't care." and if that means I can't vote, so be it, I won't.
#3
Before I vote I read up on the measures to be voted on, including pros & cons and THEN I do further research to try to see past the disinfo and BS, which is really hard because lying & spin is a staple of politics. I also research the politicians to be voted on, and pay attention to their voting record more than their rhetoric. This typically takes me a few days, each day taking me an hour or even hours.

And then I vote and get my sticker. And then other people with a sticker brag to me about voting but then demonstrate that they have no real knowledge of the candidates they voted for or the issues...once a guy bragged he decided IN THE BOOTH how he was going to vote on an issue (measure) and politician.

I also experience people all the time who are passionate about candidates who have a completely false view of the ones they support. I've gotten into some surreal conversations as a result. That is, they think they're voting for someone who is completely different than they are and even a simple visit to VoteSmart would clue them in on it, but no, they're too lazy to do even that.

And when I joined a gun range that range took the liberty to put my name on several conservative (including anti-gay) mailing lists (without telling me, it was only after I got a friend to join up and she started getting the same crap that I realized it was them, especially as they sent it all to my PO Box, which was the only mailing address I gave the shooting range on my member ap). This included super dumbed down (and deceptive) "facts" with explicit instructions on how to vote. Seriously, one was actually a tear out section (easily put in a pocket) that clearly marked "yes/no" on all measures on the state ballot that you were to just take in and vote if you were a Republican (like I said, I was confused why the California Republican Party sent me that until I figured out it was the gun range who put me on their mailing list). And if people really vote like that, then, well, I don't care if they're insulted when I say they shouldn't be allowed to vote. And if they can't bother to learn even the basic real facts (as opposed to the spin and outright lies of their choice of propaganda), then why should they be allowed to vote anyway?

And let me add that I'd be ok with lowering the voting age to 15 and very strongly support the right of convicted felons who have served their time to vote...as long as they prove themselves worthy by showing basic awareness of propaganda, manipulation tactics, and willingness to study the candidates and issues before voting.
#4
That's the trouble with humans, once they get an idea set in their mind as truth, it's terribly hard to change it, and they would simply call any source you give them biased. Like around here it's FoxNews that is unbiased, and NBC is the most biased, with ABC and CBS a close second. The big 3 are just in the pockets of liberals here, and Fox isn't in anyone's pocket (Yeah right - conservative pockets run deep too.)

While I agree, I also understand people, and you will never see that, people are biased to begin with. Myself included and, it really doesn't matter what else a candidate stands for, if he or she claims to agree with them on just one or two issues, that's all they want to know and, no amount of education is going to change their minds.

Say someone tried to tell me Obama would not increase spending, further damage healthcare and, would not enact further gun controls if he possibly could - I'd call that biased, no matter the source because in my mind he will in fact do just that, no matter what he or any other source says. Politicians lie, they will promise the world and them blame congress when they can't deliver.

I don't expect any of them to deliver on more than one, maybe two campaign promises, but I do know that Romney will do a better job of beginning to repair our economy and, won't actively pursue stricter gun laws, and will try to block any pro SSM national legislation.

So I will place my vote accordingly, and that's how most people work, they decide early and nothing will change that. only 5-10% of voters are undecided, the rest of us already know who we are voting for, and anything counter to our reasoning, we will see as biased and aimed at the undecided.
#5
Yes, yes, by all means bring back the Literacy Tests.

You do know your history yes? While in theory the literacy test was supposed to see if a person (black person, a darky, a negroe, a colored - There are more names I blush to think of them) could read and write in English, in practice the test was in Chinese....:o

I find the idea of ID registration/voting to be a sneaky way to steal the vote from people. It does tend to target the poor and those who don't drive. Seriously the majority of people who don't drive live in the inner city and are.... Dare I say this - Black....

As for Third Party - I've been third party since that terrible teenage crushes I had with the Republican Party And the Rebound relationship I had with Democrats.

Back when I thought I was a Man of the Church and doing the Churches Good work I felt that conservative 'Traditional' Values was all that and a bag of chips.

Then A few years in to seminary and other higher education classes I got me some learning and discovered that Republicans are not really all that, and those 'traditional values' actually suck - big time.

So I went into the typical rebound relationship, running to the arms of the Democratic Party... Foolish? yes. But I quickly learned that being open minded to the point your brain falls out is as bad (and in some cases worse) than being a 'conservative'.

Back then I bought into the whole idea of Black and White and Left and Right and Liberal and Conservative. Imagine my surprise and amazement when I discovered there are things like Grey, Center, and Moderate! :o Xyxthumbs

I initially got into the Green Party (It sounded like a nice color)... But have moved on. Flirted with Libertarian for a while now I'm pretty much ranked as 'undecided' as I apply to no specific party.

Actually I view myself as a member of the The Yahtzee Party. We don't actually think about the vote, instead we do complex dice throwing and counting until someone wins... It is more effective then actually trying to choose one devil over the other. Yes you still get devils, but you don't have to take responsibility over the devil who gets in. :biggrin: :tongue:

I voted Obama Last year. I almost Voted McCain. McCain did have a few strong points - then he joined forced with that empty headed Palin. The Idea of "President Palin" Scared the crap out of me...

It is not easy being third party or 'non-partisan'. you are forced to vote Republican or Democrat - seriously if you throw your vote the way you really want to then you might as well not bother to take the time to go to the polling booth.

I fear here in America the majority are sheeple (Yes used that word) and are so programmed into a two party system that presented with a third party or an alternative to the two party system they would still pick Republican or Democrat.

Programmed - propagandized, lead to believe that there is only two sides.

Truth is, there isn't even two sides - its all the same thing under different names...
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#6
Blue Wrote:I agree with IRV but not testing. I wouldn't do it. It's an insult to assume a grown man or woman capable of getting the required ID, and completing registrations lacks the intelligence to make themselves aware of the issues that matter to them as an individual. I doubt many voters care about every issue, we each vote based on what is important to us.

you'd be surprised, there are those who based their votes on what they hear from the media in the conservatives pocket, just like there are those that believe anyone of a different skin color is lesser and those that believed it when they were told that all gay people are pedophiles and are after their children who are also registered to vote. I wouldn't test their knowledge on every issue or any issue at all but I would be interested to see the results of a critical thinking and propaganda techniques test for some of the people registered to vote.
#7
I wasn't talking about literacy tests, but about about proving you at least read the voter information guide.

And AS I MENTIONED care would have to be taken (with a suggestion) to be sure it wasn't abused because the unscrupulous would attempt to use it to disenfranchise those not of their "political tribe."

What's really sad is when (for example) voters think they're voting to protect the environment but instead are giving the corporations free license to destroy it because they didn't bother to examine that carefully spun measure to make it seem it was the opposite it was. I've seen things like that happen because people don't bother to check them out and I know it has a long tradition as documented in books like The New Doublespeak and that's why I wish voters had to prove they at least read the guide which would get rid of a lot of the stupid vote that allows villains to get away with crap like that.
#8
As long as the stupid vote compromises the majority then there's really no point in anyone voting...it automatically goes to the side with the most money who can make the most commercials (many of which are blatantly lying) and can sponsor the most propaganda (it doesn't even have to be good propaganda, just repeat itself more than the opposition).

Seriously, they might as well AUCTION out the results, it would be an improvement. I'm not speaking in hyperbole, that's how bad I see the sitch, and I LITERALLY see auctioning the results better than we have now because of the money saved as well as generated (California alone would save BILLIONS from not getting & counting the votes, in addition to whatever they made from the auction, I can only imagine how huge the savings would be federally), there'd be a lot less political ads and headaches and pointless newscasts everywhere, and the end results would otherwise be the same (just less painful in getting there). The ONLY disadvantage I can think of is that there'd be less fodder for comedians.

ETA: Come to think of it, I have always heard that the USA is "the best democracy money can buy." :p
#9
I agree, I'm one of those undecided whop looks at the issues that matter to me and votes accordingly. No I don't look at every issue and, occasionally I do vote for more personal reasons.

Just so happens that this year, we are voting for a new county tax collector/ sheriff (same person does both jobs here) and, on paper and, in his speeches Danny looks like the epitome of a republican conservative but, I'm behind him 100% because I know him as a friend and, know who the man behind the politics is. The politician is only a part of who he is, and I know that if it comes down to the line, he will be there as my friend and advocate, despite being fairly conservative and, he's the one I want in that office.

I will also be voting for Romney because, in my mind SSM and all the rest of the civil rights that Obama would do better on don't mean a damn if our economy fails or, if we don't have the jobs to pay for the weddings and, I think Romney will do better at beginning to get us into economic recovery and, creating more jobs than Obama will. Romney is also pro gun rights as am I so that's a bonus point for him.

Now when the time comes to vote for more local and state officials, there I will go with LGBT rights as my first priority and hope that in the end, it all balances out for the best for all of us.
#10
I research the Congressional Voting Records and other Congressional Database Sites and I visit many different groups to see their grades on the candidates and why they received the grades. I also actively participate in the political process by letting my elected officials know what I think on a regular basis and I also contribute to the politicians and causes that I beleive in.

I know that I am politically well informed. I do not watch ANY news stations in the US...they stopped delivering news long ago. It is propaganda they deliver now. I do not consider opinions "news" and avoid opinion newstainment.

I am definitely far left and I always will be because, in part, my number one concern is whether a politician thinks they have the right to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. I am extremely hard line about it,.....if you are not 100% pro choice I will never consider voting for you and I will spend a considerable amount of time and energy opposing that candidate or elected official.

There are many things that excite either side that I am neutral about but the things I am passionate about are left or far left. .


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