American NRA

[Marc]

What on earth is going on America?
The response to the awful school shootings, apparently, is to Arm Teachers and Parents, force children to wear bullet proof schools...
http://www.channel4.com/news/america-sto...ng-victims

I just can not understand this way of thinking.

It's like Cow boys and Indians... except you have wiped out the Indians, and are starting on yourselves.

The UK has a large number of guns in circulation.. I have 1, my Dad has several... but the controls are so strict, that gun crime is virtually zero.

The UK has 3.4 Million guns in circulation of which 0.07% are used in crime.
Of the 0.07% used in crime, 0.01% are used in Homicide.

The USA has 270 MILLION guns in circulation of which 2.97% are used in crime.
Of the 2.97% used in crime, 1.07% are used in Homicide

Now do the maths...
UK has 6.2 guns for every 100,000 citizens

America has 88.8 per 100,000 citizens.

Now compare regulations.

UK

What is a prohibited person?
A person who has been sentenced to imprisonment, detention or corrective training for a term of three years or more, is permanently prohibited from having any firearms or ammunition in their possession. This means for life and includes all firearms, even air weapons.

A person sentenced to imprisonment, detention or corrective training for a period of over three months but less than three years is prohibited from possessing firearms and ammunition for five years from date of release.

It is an offence to sell or transfer firearms and ammunition to a person you have grounds to believe may be prohibited

Do I need to declare previous convictions?
Yes, including all traffic convictions and any convictions received abroad.
Handguns are banned in England. This applies to any firearm with an overall length of less than 30 cm. However muzzle-loading handguns are permitted.

An approved gun cabinet meeting British standard 7558 must be securely fitted to a solid brick wall

Applicants for firearms have to show ‘good reason’ for possession of each and every firearm.

A firearm certificate may be refused or revoked if the applicant/holder is:

A danger to public safety
Of intemperate habits
Of unsound mind
Unfit to be entrusted with such a firearm
No longer has ‘good reason’ for possession


USA

Texas Gun Laws (As of January, 2008)
State Requirements

Rifles and Shotguns
Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.
Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.
Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.
Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.
Handguns
Permit to purchase handgun? No.
Registration of handguns? No.
Licensing of owners of handguns? No.
Permit to carry handguns? Yes.
Caution: This summary is meant for general purposes only. Firearm laws frequently change.
Purchase

A Texas resident, if not otherwise precluded by law, may purchase rifles and shotguns, ammunition, reloading components, or firearms accessories in contiguous states.


The above is a very brief summary.

My point is, you don't fight gun crime by buying a bigger gun.

The UK has gun crime, much smaller than most countries, infact we rank number 108 in the gun crime table, America ranks in the top 5.

British Police do not carry guns, the risk of encountering gun crime is smaller then winning the lottery.

America need's to open it's eyes and look to other countries for idea's, because before long it is going to become a very very dangerous place to be.

[ThatRobGuy]

Guns have been a problem in the U.S. for a long time, but there is too much money coming from the gun lobby for there to ever be any radical change.

I'm not saying it's right, but that's just the way things work here. If you have the money, you have the power, and the people with the power to take the money out of politics won't do it because they are the ones prospering from it.

[ThatRobGuy]

And yes, this is the typical talking point for the NRA or gun-supporters; their solution to the gun problem is to add more guns into the fray. That's somehow supposed to magically solve all gun crime.

[Blue]

What they don't tell you is that to purchase any firearm you do have to do a background check. That you cannot carry a LOADED shotgun or rifle. (The gun has to be visible or the case it is in visible and, the ammo cannot be with the gun. It has to be in another case or in the glove box.)


The permit to carry a handgun is a concealed carry permit, one that requires training under law enforcement and, an extensive background check. Only a few states have open carry of handguns. Which would minimize the problems. If a criminal knew there was a 90% or better chance that if he did whatever, he would be shot, he'd think twice.

They also do not point out that making guns illegal does not solve the problem. If someone is going to use a gun to break the law, do you honestly think they care if the law says the can't have that gun? NO they don't.

Outlaw guns and, only criminals will have them, making us all more vulnerable to armed criminals. All the fancy self defense, hand to hand combat training it the world does no good when a gun could kill you from 50 yards easily and a many from much further away.

As I ask those that think karate will help against an armed attacker - did they teach you how to run faster than 935 feet per second? (No, of course not so, you can't outrun a bullet.)

[pellaz]

every nation has its bad:
the US its gun laws.
in the UK the royal family which appear sometimes nude while having the fun leisure life.

guns in the US are rampant everywhere and no getting that cat back into the bag. Actually is's only a few unlucky citizens among a hundred million+ that pay the price. I would say, at this point, every bloat land boat pick-em-up truck on the road has at least one hand gun inside.

actually the US constitution, an out of date document written for a agricultural society, gives citizens the right to carry guns. So if they take this right away what will they give you in return, nothing.

few citizens are capable of reacting in a critical situation short of shooting the wrong person and or them selves.
The only way to get attention is to kill at least 20 or more at once.

Concealed permits are a joke, in colorado you have to take a single un regulated course and if you show up drunk but have the money they dont care. The background ck here is done by the county sheriff's office so basically if you have paid the filling fee and not previously killed 20 people you are a winner; granted that big red neck permit. The average joe should never never carry outside the house, too easy to get way over your head but i guess its great for returning fire for the road rage.

"Outlaw guns and, only criminals will have them" well it really works now a days "only the crazy people have guns". let them arm the kindergartners. a bushmaster in every class room. much better than all the video cameras in the UK.

hand guns are expen$ive. You have to follow the money on this and yes I know some gun enthusiasts bought their gun on craigslist.org and save money re loading.

[Marc]

What you didn't seem to get with my initial post is that like America, Britain does have a high number of guns in circulation... but.. Due to the laws that control the way guns are carried and used gun crime is almost non existant.
For example if you walk down the street with a water pistol you could get a 7 year prison sentence for carrying an imitation fire arm.
Yes I agree a criminal wont worry about gun laws... But if the law is there and is robust enough then it will deter the criminal from carrying a gun. Perhaps he will carry a knife instead. Can you block a travelling bullet? Unlikely. Can you block a travelling knife... 9 times out of 10, yes.

In a civilised society, why would anybody need to carry a gun?

And regards naked Royals.... I would rather see Prince Harry's fine bottom in a picture smuggled from a private party than see children slain in primary school.

[dfiant]

They also do not point out that making guns illegal does not solve the problem. If someone is going to use a gun to break the law, do you honestly think they care if the law says the can't have that gun? NO they don't.

Gun Control doesn't equal making gun illegal.

Gun Control means limiting access to guns for undesirables. Australia's gun laws are similar to the UK. Gun's stored in a gun safe bolted to concrete or brick, ammunition and bolts (From Bolt Action gun's) stored seperately.

Legally being able to carry and/or conceal a gun needs to change. UK police don't even carry.

If you look at gun crimes in the USA, MASSACRES, those people that commited those mass killings weren't criminals, they weren't even gun owners, BUT they had access to guns because of the USA's lax gun laws. They were opportunistic crimes, and yes if a criminal wants to get their hands on a gun, they will always be able to, the UK and Australia are proof of that, but we are also proof that tighter guns laws reduce opportunistic crimes by people that no one realises are CRIMINALS until they go into a school and shoot dead 20 6-7 year old children, some execution style.

Just heard on the news that the NRA believes the answer to stopping 'Bad' people with guns is to allow 'Good' people with guns to carry. How do you distinguish between good and bad?

Put an Armed Security Guard at every school - yep, thats right, the best way to fight a gun problem in the USA is to PUT MORE GUNS IN CIRCULATION according to the mind numbingly stupid NRA. Having loads of money and political cloat doesn't make you right, it definately doesn't make you smart.

[dfiant]

[Marc]

Interesting.

The top 19 countries with the highest Gun related deaths (bar 3) are in the America's. Yet Canada is way down the list.
Canada of course has law's heavily influenced by France and the United Kingdom.

[spencer]

Not only should America be looking at the gun laws in other countries but I think we should also look at the cultural differences. Guns aren't the problem, someone has to pick it up and pull the trigger. But stricter gun laws will certainly help. And then we need to look at other ways to reduce the crime...but since Americans are too busy getting worked up because YOU CAN'T TAKE MY GUNS 2ND AMENDMENT..and ALL GUNOWNERS ARE EVIL MURDERERS are the loudest voices there will be no rational decision made in reponse to these crimes and everyone's too busy being paranoid. History wil continue to repeat itself until America collapses because we've all become overemotional about everything isntead of thinking rationally to SAVE LIVES so we kill each other and die of stress related heart attacks.

So we're all doomed. So I keep my NRA sticker on the back of my car in case someone thinks that I'm armed and therefore they shouldn't fuck with me and I don't leave my house unless necessary.

AND

And regards naked Royals.... I would rather see Prince Harry's fine bottom in a picture smuggled from a private party than see children slain in primary school.

I just felt that was worthy of being said again.