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Arrested for falling for another woman
#1
Just goes to show that not all of the world is as progressive as many European countries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-3541238...a&ns_fee=0
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Maggie the Cat from "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." by Tennessee Williams
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#2
Oh, yes, we're not all perfect and flawless as Europeans. As if we don't hear that enough already Rolleyes

Always curious to note, however, at least in these parts of the world, that most of the non-progressive traits were brought here BY European colonists. Funny how that works eh?
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#3
Europeans don't claim to be perfect and flawless (we aren't). but we are the most liberal culture, with values like personal freedom at their zenith expression here and strongly incorporated into our collective consciousness and way of life.

i don't disagree that the European civilization has exported some of its worst to other cultures (China is a prime example). Europe did have its darker period, as we all know. the difference is, we got our shit together, owned up to our mistakes, and corrected them.

it is highly ironic that the European immigrants to USA, for example, ended up establishing a more conservative society there than the one they left behind, now when all is said and done. some of the first emigrants fled Europe for religious persecution. and yet, in a prime twist of irony, religious conservatism took root in America, and not in Europe. and when Europe dug itself out of the mudhole, its progeny on the other side of the ocean failed to follow in its footsteps. it's funny how life turns out sometimes.

this said, i am very proud to be European, and the descendant of men who stayed true to Europe.

the history of Europe is in my blood.
''Do I look civilized to you?''
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#4
Insertnamehere Wrote:Oh, yes, we're not all perfect and flawless as Europeans. As if we don't hear that enough already Rolleyes

Always curious to note, however, at least in these parts of the world, that most of the non-progressive traits were brought here BY European colonists. Funny how that works eh?

It wasn't a poke at South America Insertanameher, it's just that in the last few years the majority of European countries have embraced the idea of the fact that love doesn't just exist between men and women exclusively. To deny someone's right to love another person is to deny their human rights.
"You can be young without money but you can't be old without money"
Maggie the Cat from "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." by Tennessee Williams
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#5
LONDONER Wrote:To deny someone's right to love another person is to deny their human rights.[/FONT]

very well said.
''Do I look civilized to you?''
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#6
LONDONER Wrote:It wasn't a poke at South America Insertanameher, it's just that in the last few years the majority of European countries have embraced the idea of the fact that love doesn't just exist between men and women exclusively. To deny someone's right to love another person is to deny their human rights.

Yes, I understand the story well and the intention behind the post Londoner, don't worry.

Mine wasn't some sort of afront on Europeans. I spoke rashly and failed to give a context to my comment.

If I care to explain myself a bit, it's the phrase you used "not everyone has it as well as Europe"which I get was very well intented towards generating conscience, but at the same time it brings up in my memory similar phrases used to impose Eurocentrism and concepts of superiority in extremely condescending ways, all of those used to rationalize colonization, which have left their dear mark in the colonized places.

"Europe is better in many ways" is something that we already know and acknowledge, it's no news to us that we in developing countries are heavily flawed in many ways.


meridannight Wrote:Europeans don't claim to be perfect and flawless (we aren't). but we are the most liberal culture, with values like personal freedom at their zenith expression here and strongly incorporated into our collective consciousness and way of life.

i don't disagree that the European civilization has exported some of its worst to other cultures (China is a prime example). Europe did have its darker period, as we all know. the difference is, we got our shit together, owned up to our mistakes, and corrected them.

it is highly ironic that the European immigrants to USA, for example, ended up establishing a more conservative society there than the one they left behind, now when all is said and done. some of the first emigrants fled Europe for religious persecution. and yet, in a prime twist of irony, religious conservatism took root in America, and not in Europe. and when Europe dug itself out of the mudhole, its progeny on the other side of the ocean failed to follow in its footsteps. it's funny how life turns out sometimes.

this said, i am very proud to be European, and the descendant of men who stayed true to Europe.

the history of Europe is in my blood.

You have adressed quite well some things that bother me quite a bit.

First, the view around here is in fact that "Europe can do no wrong" it's our own view, granted, whether imposed or self-developed, but our own nevertheless. That bothers me because said notion is untruthful, obviously. It doesn't bother me in the sense that acknowledging the better traits and try to emulate them is a proper way to go (ina very sui generis manner). After all I can tell you that here education and law-making is mainly French-influenced, military is German-influenced, administration is British-influenced etc etc etc. So yeah, there's quite a bit of fondness all across South America if not Latin America for anything Western European (at least in the first century after independence).

The second bit is the lack of on-par evolution of the colonized folks with respect to the motherlands. Spain seems to have dumped on us the worst traits they had back in the XVI century: misogyny, Catholicism, classism/racism etc but those were not overcome. Many elites here, modern and all in structure, follow the same predatory behavior of the original conquistadores. That is what pisses me off royally.
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#7
MERCA RULEZ!

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:tongue:
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#8
^^

This reminds me of what seems a popular sentiment in many parts of Texas (even in the dry counties):

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So when America freaked out over the possibility of ebola (which I think was actually more of a subconscious fear of metaphoric as well as literal foreigners "destroying" their way of life), especially Texas (who was talking about extreme measures to cut the state off from the rest of the nation), I appreciated this:

[Image: hDE1066D9]

There was a similar one I saw many years ago that roughly went like, "America, land of the brave, unless we think it's satanic." (Example of what America doesn't fear: men shooting guns. Example of what America fears as satanic: men holding hands.)

ETA: this is shared for humorous purposes and my own political leanings should not be deduced from it (as it's likely to be a wrong assumption).
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#9
Insertnamehere Wrote:Oh, yes, we're not all perfect and flawless as Europeans. As if we don't hear that enough already Rolleyes

Always curious to note, however, at least in these parts of the world, that most of the non-progressive traits were brought here BY European colonists. Funny how that works eh?

As it just so happens, I chanced across this image a few hours ago:

[Image: uk_immigration_troll_by_valendale-d6vxwz0.jpg]

ETA: this is shared for humorous purposes and my own political leanings should not be deduced from it (my views on immigration appear to be more complex than most).
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#10
Oh my, sounds like we're all tossing stereotypes about groups of people back and forth... I mean I'm pretty sure I came across a thread where a group of British folks who were clearly Christian extremists going around Muslin neighborhoods, carrying crosses, antagonizing them basically saying they (the Muslims) weren't welcomed and so on... Sounds like the type that would be Trump supporters Barf

I think it is OK to be proud of one's people/country/culture/etc I think it is a human characteristic. However, the truth of the matter, being human, we're all a bit guilty of wrong doings. Just as the US, its history, current state there's plenty wrong. It is unfortunate that what makes it to the media is solely our dumbshit politicians and not everyone's values as a whole, I mean the shit in our news doesn't reflect my values. You have Denmark taking anything valuable from the Syrian refugees...I'm not sure I agree with that, sounds no different than the sentiment when the Irish came to America (I'm of Irish heritage)...

The problem with the US and it's political structure is that the people running the government are rich, Ivy league turds who are completely out of touch with its people...across both sides. I think it is clear that the republican party is waning because the generation that supports their values are also retirees...

I'm not a hardcore liberal, I guess you could say I'm a little left of center. I think most people just allow the media to push them into either direction rather than seeing the forest before the trees. I mean if you trust politicians you're a fool. They can say anything, so can I, but word are words and they don't mean anything. Also bothers me that the media, not the majority of people, start asking candidates questions that really don't matter... they're going to answer according to what the party's sentiment is... Republicans are always going to be against gay marriage...I mean if they say otherwise they might gain 1 voter but lose 3 others... I think we need political reform but that's not going to happen because people are too fat and happy with their fucking Xbox and wanking.

Ugh...next time I'll know to run the next time I meet a gay person who votes republican....
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