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Backpacking
#21
First rule of backpacking and hiking:

Less is more.

The important gear you need is food, fluids and clothing.

now I can understand why your generation requires filtered water, all because you were raised in a household where everything is a disinfectant cleaner, meaning your body has not been fighting as many micro-beasts, so drinking natures not so filtered water will most likely make you have the outhouse trots, if no kill ya.

the Second rule of Backpacking is:

One will do ya.

Try to reduce your load by using a multipurpose thing. Instead of taking your kettle, pan, and pot, get a decent pot that can function for all things.

Since this is your first go round, I remind you that walking with an extra 60+ pounds on your back is difficult even on a paved level surface. If you are going into Mom Natures territory you will rapidly discover that she doesn't do pavement, and level surfaces tend to be occupied by things like trees. mind trees don't move out of your way, so that means walking around.

As newton learned us, a body in motion tends to stay in motion, meaning that even a simple change in your trajectory, turning, will mean you are fighting that silly law Newton invented to frustrate us, and that pack will work muscles that you most likely never felt before.

Tent: Seriously? Back Packing is supposed to be seriously roughing it, where you get damp, get cold, get eaten alive by flying blood sucking vampires.

I would strongly suggest that you do day packing with heavier and heavier loads close enough to your car to where when you get exhausted (and you will) you can crawl back to your car.

Third rule of Backpacking:

Blisters are no fun.

Serious consequences can take place if your feet get blisters. Even a small one can seriously slow you down and how are you going to fight (or run from) a bear, coyote, wolf or other highly skilled predators that you might meat... or be meat for?

If you bought a new pair of boots or hiking shoes for this venture you will get blisters. Again, gaining serious weight instantly will place more downward force on those peds of yours. I blame Newton, he was the idiot who decided to invent Gravity.

i don't know your body, so I can't reccomend a specific pack frame, but if you picked the wrong back-pack with a frame that doesn't fit your body, or let you firmly secure that hip belt (which is where most of the weight is carried) you will have serious complications, such and falling backwards and playing the dying turtle... since turtles get stuck on their backs and tend to never get back on their feet.

There are a lot of forums out there for hikers and backpackers. Many have suggested lists and can give you lots of information.

Camping with a car or truck to haul your gear is nothing like packing your shit all over natures living room.

I do hope you are going someplace that has been made into trails, as the division of forestry take a lot of time to plot the paths and then they maintain the paths, reducing the work your body will have to do to hike.

Nest law of Backpacking:

Carry as much on your hips as you can.

The pelvis is designed to carry massive loads. your back not so much. This means you want to rest as much of that extra weight on your hips. A good belt with pockets and pouchs tends to work real well at holding a few pounds, taking the stress of your spine. Trust me, once the spine is wrecked its all down hill from there - meaning iif you damage it your future will consist of canes, walkers and possibly wheel chairs.

Nutrition is very, very important. The body uses sugars for energy. You will find that trail mixes and other camping/hiking foods are high in the carb and protein department. You might also know that diabetics keep sugary foods and high protein foods for when they overdose on insulin and their sugar crashes. Sugar is the first thing they eat to rapidly boost glucose levels, then they eat protein to stabilize and maintain the glucose level past the sugar rush.

Trail mix is older than dirt - well the idea of it. Eating a mouthful of trail mix or similar energy often food as you hike to prevent energy crash is more important carrying a load.

Inventory your crap, and then gather it all in one location and look at it critically. Then ask yourself what can I survive without. Mind surviving and living are two different things.

If you are planing on taking more than one pair of jeans, one pair of shorts, one shirt of various types you are going to pay a high price. backpacking is not a clean sport... This means your clothing will reek of sweat, smoke and other things... and if you make a few kills along the way for food expect blood stains. Blood is hard to clean out of fabrics...

I would suggest you look through your closet and find well worn, comfortable clothing that you won't mind being splattered with interesting colorful substances. And of course being caked with dirt, possibly even being filled with shit since nature living tends to accelerate many bodily functions.

I did serious survival training in a few environments. basically hand me a good knife and I'm good. The things I would take off your list would be the tent, the stool, the wipes, the hand sanitizer (face reality, nature doesn't keep a sterile house - get used to it, embrace it and let your body deal with the germs as it is SUPPOSE to do).

I think the major problem here is you have become too attached to luxury things like indoor plumbing, soap, and shelter. the whole point of packing and hiking is to leave all that crap behind and become one with the world - the real world - and put so called civilization behind you.
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#22
Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:I did serious survival training in a few environments. basically hand me a good knife and I'm good. The things I would take off your list would be the tent, the stool, the wipes, the hand sanitizer (face reality, nature doesn't keep a sterile house - get used to it, embrace it and let your body deal with the germs as it is SUPPOSE to do).

I think the major problem here is you have become too attached to luxury things like indoor plumbing, soap, and shelter. the whole point of packing and hiking is to leave all that crap behind and become one with the world - the real world - and put so called civilization behind you.

I think the whole idea of backpacking is whatever that person wants to do. I mean some people take tents, some people are on the show Naked & Afraid...

I don't think it is overkill to take a tent or even take some sanitary supplies...like toothbrushes, and TP and being able to wash areas that will get stinky after a day of hiking...might be overkill, but that's all part of discovering and why I'm asking questions, searching around to find out what other people have done. I don't think there is a strict definition of what camping or what backpacking is or how it should be done...

I do agree that we in general are used to used to pooping in toilets and overall cleanliness and comfort...but doesn't mean it is bad to take a tent...or a camp stool and so on. I think the objective is to enjoy the experience whether you're sleeping in a tent or bare ass naked.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
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#23
[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION], I think you are heading in the right direction, just look at everything and think about reducing weight. For a first run, you can do things like using a sturdy plastic bag slit in the middle of one long side so that it will cover the pack to help keep it mostly dry. Pack stuff inside in plastic bags, too.

Plan on it being a downpour for the whole trip. Plastic bags? You bet. It all may not be needed but you won 't be sorry if you do need it.

I think you are right that the stove you have is too bulky for packing, though as a tableside cook I am green with jealousy. Have always wanted one of those. If fires are allowed where you are going you can, with a little ingenuity, rig a campstove using a #10 can. Cut off the ends and use a church key to punch air vents around the bottom then rig a grate out of woven coat hangers or use a sturdy cake cooling rack. You build a teeny hot fire inside and cook away. Be sure the whole setup is stable. You will have to remove the pot and take the grate off to add fuel. Those little pliers I mentioned will make their value immediately apparent here. If you are not used to building fires and don't know about such things as frizz sticks and pitch pine, take some stick fire starter along for help. It is sawdust impregnated with stuff that lights easily and shaped into sticks. FIND A SAFE PLACE FOR THE FIRE, start with teeny twigs, then less teen twigs with a little chunk of fire starter under them, then small twigs, all in a teepee shaped pile,then finger and thumb sized twigs, then sticks, etc. Have plenty of fuel broken into pieces that will fit before you light the fire because you MUST stay with it while it it burning. Then light the fire, put the can stove over it and cook away. the reason that I do not mention just cutting vent hole around the rim and using the end of the can as a "grate" is that it becomes a way too delicate matter to add fuel. It is bad enough a it is. The whole thing will be bulky and prickly but will work in a pinch.

One major problem with wood fires is that the require much more tending than stoves. Another is that you must have a way to put them out.

Even if you stove fire is only double fist sized it will take a while to burn out and dribbling precious water over the remaining cols while carefully stirring until you can place both hands directly on the ashes and feel NO heat is a slow process. An out of control fire is a horrible thing. Cook nowhere near your tent. Sparks love nylon.

As for your cook set, you can do with a couple of light nesting pots...one for boiling water and one for cooking. take a light lid or even rig it with several layers of thick foil to make a lid. This keeps debris out but, most importantly, makes boiling and cooking more efficient. You do not need the rest of the cookset. Keep it for backyard use, though.

You should practice all of this at home, having little cookouts for fun.

Look up The Complete Walker IV by googling and going to Amazon. The front cover illustration is a pic of the contents of his pack. Yes, it is OK to be amazed. Do remember that this is essentially the setup he used to walk the entire length of the Grand Canyon. Other than food, not much changes.

Bowyn makes some good points. Read carefully.

If our pack does not have a hip belt even a sturdy belt woven through the bottom support and carefully cinched can help.

Better to wear old sturdy boots and bring several pairs of socks than new books. Try them on with the socks you plan to weat and 4 or 5 gallon jugs of water in the pack. then walk around the block and take the boots off and play with your feet. Hot spots>? Red spots? Rubbing? You get the idea.
Get moleskin from your local drug store. You want the kind that is sticky on one side and sort of fuzzy felt on the other. You use it by cutting a piece to cover the red, sore, blister area and putting the felt side toward the sking than you cut another pice with a margin wide enough to make it stick. Put both pieces together and apply. If you have sore feet the stuff will make you believe in God. don't just put the sticky part on the sore spot. Taking it off may take the skin with it. Nasty. Plan on leaving it on until you get home for a short hike. The point of two pairs of socks, by the way, is to have them provide a subtle bit of sliding action to prevent friction.

Keep thinking about is all. In a way that is part of the fun.
Remember that you will not be perfet at this on the first try. People keep refining. My dearest friend started out taking a folding camp toaster (useless) and a loaf of sliced bread (squish) on an early trip. He kept warm with a cheap sleeping bag and a big ol' spotted dog. By the time he climbed Mt. McKinley he had things down.
I bid NO Trump!
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#24
Alright experienced backpackers, have you ever seen anyone backpacking with a camp stool? I have not.

I cannot imagine what it would be used for. When you are cooking your stove is on the ground. When you are eating, either your mug or your bowl is on the ground while you using the other item to fill yourself with calories. You will end up constantly bending over to retrieve the other item which sits on the ground. When you are done hiking for the day you will be tired enough to eat and want to lay down, not sit on a stool. If you can find something in nature to use as a table, like a rock or a fallen tree, then you could sit on your stool next to this and maybe use it as a table, Or, you could just sit on that thing you found and be grateful that you didn't haul a 2 pound non-essential item that you used for 20 minutes a day.

I think a backpacking tent is great for keeping you warm, dry, and bug free when asleep. A 1-man is fine, but a 2-man is hardly any extra weight and gives you options if ever you do find someone to join you on a backpack trip.

LJay's talking about pliers prompts me to suggest you get a Leatherman-type tool over a Swiss army knife type tool. You can get a cheap knockoff for like $30 - $40. It's a very versatile tool you can use in daily life too.
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#25
Well I guess I'll have to find out for myself. I might find it useful or might find it to have been a waste of money. One thing for sure definitely not buying another tent, at least not right now. Maybe once I have done some camping and someone actually wants to come along. I have some multi-tools that I can bring to make do for now along with a knife.

Things like setting up rope to keep food items away from bears wasn't something I had ever seen done before simply because that due to the fact I haven't been backpacking or have done anything back country without the aid of cars and such just simply haven't been exposed. Not a complete idiot but not experienced. I think as far as gear goes, probably going to be stuck with what I currently have and have to work around issues to arise and make adjustments from there. If anything I would be more curious about what others have done for deterring bears...but sounds like any kind of scent can lure them in so best that anything that smells needs to be hanging on a line somewhere a way...12 feet off the ground?
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
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#26
Speaking of bear deterrents... Bear canisters...don't know much about them... Seem kind of pricey, what are some alternatives to those or is it simply prepare to spend more money? I mean they seem to be kind of bulky and the ones I seen didn't seem to have an easy way tie to a rope...unless it is put the canister somewhere and hope the bear doesn't decide to play kickball with it trying to get into it.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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#27
Way too early in your backpacking career for a bear canister because they are costly. And they're a drag to pack anyway because they are so bulky. And yeah, if a bear wants your food they play football with your canister until they get bored or realize there's no way in. The paracord is a perfect solution. I've never carried bear spray in black bear country. I haven't backpacked in grizzly country.
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#28
Camfer Wrote:Way too early in your backpacking career for a bear canister because they are costly. And they're a drag to pack anyway because they are so bulky. And yeah, if a bear wants your food they play football with your canister until they get bored or realize there's no way in. The paracord is a perfect solution. I've never carried bear spray in black bear country. I haven't backpacked in grizzly country.

Well Fires Creek is a bear sanctuary. How far away should I place Food (and anything that smells) from the camp area? 100 yards or more?

Thankfully there aren't any brown or grizzly bears as they are quite more aggressive from what I've read.

I think I definitely need to not make any other purchases until I actually start camping and so forth. Bike touring is the main goal, so it would pay to get used to camping and dealing with less than idea conditions.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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#29
[MENTION=20941]Camfer[/MENTION], I can't say that I have ever seen anyone carrying a campstool, though I do confess that I have longed for a comfortable seat with back support more than once while hiking. A passable alternative is to prop your pack against something and use it as a backrest while you are seated on the ground. Since the one piece of Earth that is not lumpy is said to be located in the bottom of a Costa Rican lagoon, a sleeping pad can be a wonderful thing.

As for my little pliers, I took someone's suggestion to try them after battling with umpteen devices for handing hot cooking pots from folded bandannas to special aluminum pot grippers to branches to church keys. The tiny pliers work the best and are the most dexterous when speed is required. The Leatherman pliers are a bit awkward for me and honestly I have had such good service from Swiss Army knives that I have developed a real appreciation for their being so well crafted. I don't find the blades on the Leatherman tools to be as easy to use. To each his own.
[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION], have you talked to the rangers at Fire Creek about the bears?They may have some insights and pointers. Frankly, most rangers I have talked to are delighted to share info and make conversation. I need to get back to the site covering the Rim Trail and do some reading for myself.

You are wise not to spend any more than you must until you get the feel for backpacking. I have an idea that you will find that many lightweight techniques will prove to be very handy in your biking adventures also.
I bid NO Trump!
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#30
LJay Wrote:[MENTION=20941]Camfer[/MENTION], I can't say that I have ever seen anyone carrying a campstool, though I do confess that I have longed for a comfortable seat with back support more than once while hiking. A passable alternative is to prop your pack against something and use it as a backrest while you are seated on the ground. Since the one piece of Earth that is not lumpy is said to be located in the bottom of a Costa Rican lagoon, a sleeping pad can be a wonderful thing.

As for my little pliers, I took someone's suggestion to try them after battling with umpteen devices for handing hot cooking pots from folded bandannas to special aluminum pot grippers to branches to church keys. The tiny pliers work the best and are the most dexterous when speed is required. The Leatherman pliers are a bit awkward for me and honestly I have had such good service from Swiss Army knives that I have developed a real appreciation for their being so well crafted. I don't find the blades on the Leatherman tools to be as easy to use. To each his own.
[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION], have you talked to the rangers at Fire Creek about the bears?They may have some insights and pointers. Frankly, most rangers I have talked to are delighted to share info and make conversation. I need to get back to the site covering the Rim Trail and do some reading for myself.

You are wise not to spend any more than you must until you get the feel for backpacking. I have an idea that you will find that many lightweight techniques will prove to be very handy in your biking adventures also.

Well got the camp stool in and tried it out and seems fine... I mean don't know how I will like it on an actual trip out into the woods, but it seems comfortable enough, very lightweight.... So give it a try i guess? I did consider a ground chair but they were pretty pricey and seemed like the cheaper ones lacked on quality based on a lot of the reviews I read and wasn't about to spend $140 on a ground chair....$25 is more like it.

I haven't talked to anyone at the Ranger Station, but once I get a weekend where I am free I do intend to get some information. Although I do think as long as I keep food away probably won't be a problem, worst case I won't have breakfast the next morning...which losing your food on a multi-day hike could be a big problem.

Too many things going on the next couple weekends, otherwise I'd probably take off tomorrow morning...but need to swim. Although with me running into thunderstorms on the bike you'd think I had done enough swimming...

Anyway outside of getting some rope and maybe a sack to put my food in (just a bag of some sort that is preferably water resistant)...Food, dryer lint...cheap rain suit or something along those lines, maybe some other odds and ends. I should have enough crap to pull it off...
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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