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How far we have come
James Wrote:I must revist this thread and still I am in awe, the young people who killed themselves from bullying and cyber pounceing there is some justice, the young man who taped his roommates sexual incounter causeing him to go suicidial is up for second dergree manslaughter seems like maybe its turning around

What's this story, Jim? Can you find the details?
By BETH DeFALCO, Associated Press Beth Defalco, Associated Press – Wed Apr 20, 6:05 pm ET
TRENTON, N.J. – A former Rutgers University freshman who prosecutors said used a webcam to spy on his roommate's same-sex encounter was charged Wednesday with a hate crime and accused of deleting tweets and texts to cover up his tracks.
Dharun Ravi, 19, was indicted in Middlesex County on 15 counts including bias intimidation and invasion of privacy in events that predated the suicide of 18-year-old Tyler Clementi, who in death started a national conversation on the perils of bullying.
Ravi had already faced invasion of privacy charges along with another Rutgers student, Molly Wei. It took prosecutors months to present their case to a grand jury alleging that Ravi targeted Clementi because of his sexual orientation and tried to broadcast the encounter online to intimidate his roommate.
The cascade of events started the day Ravi "learned the name of his roommate," Middlesex County Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan said in a statement, not elaborating. The charges do not link the alleged spying to Clementi's suicide.
"The grand jury indictment spells out cold and calculated acts against our son, Tyler, by his former college roommate," Clementi's parents, Jane and Joe Clementi, said in a statement. "If these facts are true, as they appear to be, then it is important for our criminal justice system to establish clear accountability under the law."
The indictment is an important step in a heartbreaking case, state Attorney General Paula Dow said.
The state's hate crime law "recognizes the terrible harm caused by acts of bigotry and hatred and imposes harsher punishment on those who commit such crimes," Dow said.
If convicted of the most serious bias charge, Ravi could face five to 10 years in prison.
Kaplan said charges against Wei weren't presented to the grand jury. It was unclear Wednesday whether a case against Wei would go before a grand jury or whether she helped prosecutors in the case against Ravi.
An attorney for Ravi did not return a call seeking comment, and Wei's attorney declined to comment.
Prosecutors have said that Ravi used Wei's computer in her dorm room to activate a webcam on a computer in his room to view and stream Clementi's encounter. Prosecutors said Ravi tried the same thing during a second encounter Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide.
Ravi posted a message on his now-closed Twitter account on Sept. 19 that read: "Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."
Two days later, he wrote on Twitter: "Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes it's happening again."
Lawyers for Ravi and Wei later said that the webcam stream was viewed on only a single computer and did not show the men having sex.
The indictment said the sexual encounter was seen and accuses Ravi of targeting Clementi and invading his privacy, knowing that his roommate would be intimidated because of his sexual orientation.
The indictment also suggests that Ravi tried to cover up his actions, by deleting a Twitter post letting others know how they could view the second encounter, and replacing it with a false tweet. It said that Ravi also deleted text messages sent and received by witnesses and gave false information to police — all with the intent of misleading investigators.
A poster in a gay-themed chat room who appears to have been Clementi said he unplugged Ravi's computer and searched for hidden cameras before the second liaison.

Clementi had apparently complained to the university about his roommate, and Rutgers officials have said they did all they could.
The young man left a note on his Facebook page on Sept. 22 that read: "Jumping off the gw bridge sorry."
Clementi was a promising violinist — and out to his parents, an attorney told The Associated Press on Wednesday — in his first weeks at college when he took his life.
His death came amid a string of high-profile suicides nationwide of young people who were gay or perceived to be gay.
Partly because of the way he killed himself — jumping off the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River — his suicide became the tipping point and led to a national conversation about bullying.
President Barack Obama, talk show host Ellen DeGeneres and sex columnist Dan Savage talked publicly about his death, even videotaping statements, saying that young gays and lesbians need to know that life gets better after the torment of teen years.
New Jersey toughened its anti-bullying law in the months after Clementi's suicide.
On Wednesday, gay rights activists cheered the indictment as an act of justice and a warning to would-be bullies.
"Without question, the indictment is in the best interests of justice and in the best interests of students across New Jersey, for their potential bullies will now think harder before demolishing another student's life," said Steven Goldstein of Garden State Equality.
Gov. Chris Christie in January signed a law requiring the codes of conduct at public colleges to address bullying.
Clementi's parents have filed notice preserving their right to sue Rutgers, saying the university failed to put in place or enforce policies to deter such acts. Their attorney, Paul Mainardi, said Wednesday that they are "in negotiations" with Rutgers.
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So how do we reply, those of us that were out in the times of stonewall and harvey milk, what can we bring forward other than hope and support for those who struggle now. I hope it is a sense of pride knowing that many before have paved the road although there are many potholes still at least there is a road to finish, jim
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I read so many of the young people's threads here, some questions why we have subthreads, some don't remember the past. I posted this in 2009, I was remembering how it was. I appreciate that Andy let me bring it back up. I think young people need to see how it was, James
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James Wrote:We must conquer the hearts of one country at a time. It is unfortunate it must be this way but overcoming the restrictions of each religion would be to much all at once,.

I've been saying that since I came to GS. East and I had a conversation about that just a couple of weeks ago. The easiest way to change things is one person at a time.
[MENTION=2456]James[/MENTION] ---- I have a friend here I've known for over 3 years who won't tell his age but I estimate he's close to 70. He has kept newspaper and magazine clippings from the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s and has TONS of VCR tapes of things from TV and some that didn't make it on TV that relate to gays when he was younger.

He and the guy he calls his first "lover' both had been married when they met and they both had custody of sons. They became one family down in South Florida just before Anita Bryant, her husband and Jerry Falwell started their war on gays. This friend of mine and his lover were in all that and did some ugly fighting to get back at the straight people who were leading the movement and then all sorts of other people who sympathized with Bryant and Falwell. They called it the Orange Juice war because Bryant was the spokesperson in all the advertising for Florida Orange Juice.

He's told me about that and it's amazing to me how organized gays were for that and they didn't even have the internet to communicate and coordinate. All they had was 'little black books" he says most gays kept with all the phone numbers of people they knew. From them they built up a nationwide network where guys in South Florida could make just a few phone calls to people who would make a few phone calls and so on and so on to get people in ALL the states to trash/destroy orange juice displays in grocery stores at about the same time. Bryant had to have bodyguards but two of them were gay and kept the network informed where she was going so gays could organize and screw her up anywhere she went.

All it took back then was for some scum bag politician or preacher to get headlines supporting Anita and the gay network went to work on them. They outed closeted ministers -- politicians, business men anyone who was down on gays. The ones they couldn't get gay info on they got other dirt -- like who they were screwing on the down low and letting wives and others find out through the grapevine. They caused loads of divorces and even had some businessmen fired. They really did some shitty things to people, like policemen, Bryant's husband, politicians, preachers, etc. He explained that the gay movement out of south Florida had one theme in everything they did that went like this we aren't in this to win anything. We're in this to make sure they lose everything.

And that's what they did. They destroyed Anita Bryant's career, not once, not twice but three times and stopped her from making a come back about 8-10 years ago. They set up her husband with some easy whores and found out who Anita was screwing on the side, got pictures and sent them to churches, newspapers and TV news. Naturally back then almost no newspapers or TV stations would run any of that. Her husband was the biggest radio DJ and concert organizer in South Florida. When the gays got through with him he and he and Anita were divorced, he was bankrupt, lost everything including his job and ended up as an after midnight host on a puny talk radio station. Anita married the guy she was cheating with and left Florida after she was fired from her job promoting Florida Orange Juice. She tried to start her singing career up in Nashville and flopped, then in Branson and flopped and then starting a theme park that never could get off the ground. THEN she was supposed to make a movie about her life and the gays who remembered her made sure that didn't happen.

They outed students and faculty at Falwell's university. They outed married men who worked in DC and even in the White House who were sneaking around with high priced escorts who were in the network. According to my friend here they even tracked down guys who had sex with one of Prez Nixon's son in laws in college and in the military. There were lots of writers and artists (gay and straight) in Key West who were connected with the drug trade back then who were also passing on info to the network about all the goody-goody people they knew who were sneaking around to get marijuana and cocaine.

Hearing about all this I had to wonder why gays weren't that way now. I asked him about it. He blames it on gays starting to get into mainstream politics rather than work within the gay network. Once that happened and the main battle with Anita was done -- gay people turned around and went back to life as normal and let the people involved in politics start handling everything. That's called co-opting. Now most gays my age don't give a shit about getting really involved in changing things other than getting out to do Gay Pride marches when they wake up in time and there's not a sale at Target.

I have met gay people my age who have never heard of Stonewall, Anita Bryant or Leonard Matlovich. Some of them think all gay equality started with Matthew Shepard being killed.

Maybe one day I ought to do a thread on some of the things I've been told about the ways things used to be back then, the suicides like James started this thread about -- or the ways gay people were turned in by family or co-workers, haled before judges who sent them to mental institutions where lots of them were given lobotomies, electric shock treatments and even castrated trying to cure them of being gay. Lesbians were even raped under medical supervision. That was the ugly side of the story when homosexuality was declared not to be a disease anymore. The hospitals had to find ways to release hundreds or thousands of gays without people noticing too much about it.
Yes Virge, still have my phone number book, Jim, had to edit, the numbers had a prefix of glencourt, or hudson, etc, before the number system we use now
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