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Is the USA heading for a civil war?
#1
74 millions voted for Trump and believe that he is God's gift to mankind.  After the invasion of the Capitol, the FBI is now saying that there will be armed fights in every State capital to start off Biden's inauguration.  Those starting trouble are those who firmly believe that the election was rigged and that the COVID-19 vaccine is a conspiracy between the world's Governments but aren't capable of explaining exactly what this conspiracy wants to achieve.

What's your opinion?
"You can be young without money but you can't be old without money"
Maggie the Cat from "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." by Tennessee Williams
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#2
I am having trouble drawing my own conclusions over this unprecedented situation. All I see is history repeating itself, 1861-1865...
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#3
(01-12-2021, 09:33 PM)LONDONER Wrote:
but aren't capable of explaining exactly what this conspiracy wants to achieve.

This is the part I've never understood. It was the same with the whole toilet roll fiasco. I saw a video when people were questioned during the act of filling a trolley with toilet roll or getting into verbal fights with other people about the last toilet roll on the shelf. They did not have an answer about why they were doing it. They could not answer.

It seems like a few people get a crazy idea and then a whole bunch of sheep blindly follow it.
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#4
I see history repeating itself as well but I would reference 1939-1945.

The crowd pretty much defined themselves with the flags and the t-shirts. They clearly told you who they were and what they are about.

The common enemies - the Blacks - the Jews and the Gays

MACHINE did a great song back in the 1970s - relevant today - and you can dance to it Smile

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#5
(01-12-2021, 09:33 PM)LONDONER Wrote:
74 millions voted for Trump and believe that he is God's gift to mankind.  After the invasion of the Capitol, the FBI is now saying that there will be armed fights in every State capital to start off Biden's inauguration.  Those starting trouble are those who firmly believe that the election was rigged and that the COVID-19 vaccine is a conspiracy between the world's Governments but aren't capable of explaining exactly what this conspiracy wants to achieve.

What's your opinion?

Well @LONDONER here's what I think and this is coming from a conservative area. Most people from what I can tell condemn the actions that took place at the capital and then there's some who have been drinking the orange kool-aid. There's a lot of dumb people and those are are brainwashed...

While I clearly oppose Trump and many conservative views I do not believe that the 74 million people who voted for Trump believe he's God's gift to mankind or that all 74 million people are any particular thing (other than wrong for voting for Trump at the least). The FBI says there could be violence, not that there will be and I suspect there might be isolated incidents but I imagine that due to this security will be heightened which will likely keep most morons home...hopefully. Then again the crazy shit has clearly carried over from 2020.

I do not believe that we're headed for a civil war because I do not believe that the people, including those who did vote for Trump support the idea of such. I believe it is a subset of a subset of people. Yes there's a bunch of people who think reptiles run the world and they masquerade as the elite who our elected officials, billionaires and so on...

There's a good number of idiots out here but I do not believe it represents the majority, however these people certainly get the media spotlight.

I think the bigger problem is that we do see the elites get special treatment. Had those people who broke into the capitol building been BLM protestors it would be have been much different, it would have been called something else in the media and the attitudes towards the incident would have been different...none for the better. We constantly see people charged for the same crimes, the working class guy get's 30 years in prison and the wealthy elite guy gets 5 years and serves 18 months if that. That, I feel, is the elephant in the room is the injustices like that in general. When we have billionaires who can afford to quite literally pay for everyone in the US who needs cancer treatment (at US prices to boot) there is something wrong with the system.

On another subject, misinformation is nothing new in the US. It's just become bolder, anyone remember the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq had? Me either.
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#6
(01-13-2021, 12:06 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: Thanks for your input @InbetweenDreams, it's interesting to get other points of view.

My reference to "God's gift ...." was just that the 74 millions who voted for Trump seem to be absolutely fanatical about him based on the interviews I have seen on various news channels.  I am really surprised at how many women are fanatical about him.
From articles that I have read, the FBI says that it is possible there will be armed uprising.  Ten thousand troops have been drafted in to Washington to boost security on the 20th but some officials are asking for more.  I don't believe such measures would be taken if the armed insurrection were just a possibilty.  We don't have to wait too long before we will know for certain.
"You can be young without money but you can't be old without money"
Maggie the Cat from "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof." by Tennessee Williams
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#7
@LONDONER Oh don't get me wrong, there are plenty who are complete maniacs. I sort of divide the maniacs in two groups, those are legit Trump fanatics and those who participate in it because they love trolling. You know the kids that decide to go along with doing bad things to fit in? Those guys.

I do blame media outlets for indoctrinating people and this obviously being right wing outlets like Fox (and now you have these organizations like Newsmax and OAN and so on) for spreading misinformation or at the very least misrepresenting facts...you know the lie that's not a lie...but it's still a lie or may as well be. People are so easily manipulated and it's not just right-wingers, its everyone. That being said, I do think people ought to be smart enough to realize they're being lied to but apparently we don't. Things like TV, 24/7 news, social media are really quite new phenomena. Somehow we have to get a handle on bullshit. It's one thing to tell the news but another to have some bobble head give his two cents on it. I feel like both the people and those telling us the news hold a certain responsibility to not cause mass hysteria, not to cultivate an environment which may lead to violence. I feel that we people often fan the flames than anything else, and yes that includes the media. I don't know how you can draw the lines, I don't know how that is supposed to be controlled without trampling over freedom of speed. It is one thing to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, another being Newsmax spreading conspiracy theories or misrepresenting facts and spreading misinformation over several years. The minute you start putting limits like that on the media or people that's where it can turn into something very bad, because who decides what is ok and what crosses the line, what if we get another nutcase like Trump who decides what that is?

Perhaps I am way out of my head, hopefully I have made some sense, certainly not trying to suggest any particular thing but I just notice a lot of bollocks when it comes to our news. Not sure if US news channels like CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc are available outside the US and to what capacity but me not being a huge consumer of "cable" news I almost see right through the veil of spin, hype and bull shit, it's almost like you're looking for the news in the news. Perhaps I haven't had enough coffee yet and my head isn't on straight.
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#8
(01-13-2021, 01:23 PM)LONDONER Wrote:
(01-13-2021, 12:06 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: Thanks for your input @InbetweenDreams, it's interesting to get other points of view.

My reference to "God's gift ...." was just that the 74 millions who voted for Trump seem to be absolutely fanatical about him based on the interviews I have seen on various news channels.  I am really surprised at how many women are fanatical about him.
From articles that I have read, the FBI says that it is possible there will be armed uprising.  Ten thousand troops have been drafted in to Washington to boost security on the 20th but some officials are asking for more.  I don't believe such measures would be taken if the armed insurrection were just a possibilty.  We don't have to wait too long before we will know for certain.
Not to be political in anyway, but I think that the weak tend to look for a strongman to be their savior.  They really do put him onto a pedestal like a savior, which I find to be frightening.
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#9
@JoelR I honestly have no clue what these people think. For some people it's trolling and others they take it serious, they really are racist and they really are f*cking evil and I'm not kidding...

This is the stuff that was on Parler before AWS and warning, pretty graphic stuff...so click at your own discretion

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/13/22228...ree-speech
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#10
(01-16-2021, 03:41 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: @JoelR I honestly have no clue what these people think. For some people it's trolling and others they take it serious, they really are racist and they really are f*cking evil and I'm not kidding...

This is the stuff that was on Parler before AWS and warning, pretty graphic stuff...so click at your own discretion

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/13/22228...ree-speech
Yup I came across that article too while browsing around.  

I think the tipping point, however, is that it actually incited action.  There are a lot of dark corners of the Internet where people post rather unsavory comments every day.  The difference is that those words don't lead to action.  When you read up on free speech, an unprotected category is 'incitement of imminent lawless action.'  There was clearly an incitement of imminent action on the part of Parler.  

As a community owner myself, this discussion over Parler has opened up quite a few lines of thinking:
- In the pursuit of virality, how do you balance positive versus negative sentiment?  Negativity is quantitatively measured to be x2 as powerful as Positivity
- How do you handle moderation at scale?
- How do you allow users to be comfortable with familiar commentary, while also not trapping them in their own echo chambers?    
Legacy forums (and my platform, while using modern technology, is still firmly in that category) does nothing to address these deep, confounding issues.
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