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Rabbis discuss gay parenting in Israel
#1
[img2=left]http://www.gayspeak.com/forum/images/news/rabbi.jpg[/img2]A Jewish initiative may see gay men marrying women to have children while continuing relationships with their male partners.

It was introduced by Rabbi Menachem Burstein, head of the prestigious Orthodox Puah Institute, at a conference titled 'Parenthood at any cost?'.

Rabbi Burstein said he has been approached by a number of gay Jewish men who want to have children but also want to keep within halachic law, which is Jewish religious law.

The idea would involve a gay man marrying a woman with both parties aware the union would be solely to produce children. The man would continue his relationship with his male partner, although it would have to be non-sexual. The man would also have to receive counselling about his homosexuality from religious psychologists.

According to TheJC.com, Rabbi Burstein said: "I explained to them that one thing I, or any other rabbi, could never do was to alter the prohibition on mishkav zachar [penetrative sex between men], as it is from the Torah. When they accepted that, and clarified that they wanted a solution within halachah, we could go forward."

He added: "Although this is certainly not an ideal marriage, if both sides are prepared, then it does not really matter if they conceive through artificial insemination or relations that are aimed solely at conception."

Rabbi Burstein said that although having desires for other men was not a sin, acting on them is.

"There is nothing wrong with two men having a close relationship without intimate relations and we should not penalise people who are not attracted to members of the other sex," he said.

"Of course we believe it is a problem and that the solution should be therapy, but there are always going to be a certain number of religious homosexuals who have tried and failed to change. What about them?" A number of senior rabbis are consulting on the issue and the next step is to discuss what the effect of such an arrangement might have on children born within it.

Despite its limitations, the move has been heralded as revolutionary, as it is a recognition from that Orthodox establishment in Israel that homosexuality does exist.
Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this contaminant free message. However, I do concede, a significant number of electrons may have been inconvenienced.
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#2
A dog's dinner of a "solution", but certainly a step forward. Extraordinary!

Anyone here think they could cope with such a life?
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#3
"Rabbi Burstein said that although having desires for other men was not a sin, acting on them is."

No what is a sin meaning a shame is to live your entire life adhering to some stone age moral code that has no bearing on what we are as gay men.

Yes deny those women a chance to be with someone who truly loves them in return.
Why drag some poor woman into this. Are they no more than breeding cattle to this insane rabbi?
I don't want a step forward at the expense of some else.

I wonder how many "laws" I could pull out of the Torah that Jews disregard because they seem foolish or out dated?
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#4
I have one more thing to add since we are on the topic.
It seems to me that religion is more about phobia that God.
Fear of women as equals
Fear of anything non-heterosexual
Fear of life
Fear of death

Hey rabbi Burstein have one of your "religious psychologists" analyze that.
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#5
I understand what you are saying, Curt, but while this rabbi might not be offering all you want at the moment his movement from the previous extreme is significant. As a friend was keen on saying on another site, "The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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#6
Sorry marsh. I love you to death, but quite frankly I am sick to death of religion. What happened to peace and love and not judging others.
All the rabbi is saying is as long as you stay in the closet we will accept you.
What just happened in Tel Aviv ?
I am to the point where I think gay people should be more militant.
I would love to be married and raise a family, but where I live being gay falls under lewd conduct laws.
It's time we as gay people start to stand up for ourselves and not let anything slide.
Think about all the people who post here begging for advice in dealing with their sexuality. What example are we setting for them.
Every oppressed minority in this country has come to the point where it had to act, Women, Blacks, and now it's time for gay people to say ENOUGH!!!
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#7
CurtCB Wrote:Sorry marsh. I love you to death, but quite frankly I am sick to death of religion. What happened to peace and love and not judging others.
All the rabbi is saying is as long as you stay in the closet we will accept you.
What just happened in Tel Aviv ?
I am to the point where I think gay people should be more militant.
I would love to be married and raise a family, but where I live being gay falls under lewd conduct laws.
It's time we as gay people start to stand up for ourselves and not let anything slide.
Think about all the people who post here begging for advice in dealing with their sexuality. What example are we setting for them.
Every oppressed minority in this country has come to the point where it had to act, Women, Blacks, and now it's time for gay people to say ENOUGH!!!

AHMEN MY FRIEND, AHMEN
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#8
CurtCB Wrote:Sorry marsh. I love you to death, but quite frankly I am sick to death of religion ...
Thanks, Curt, but I don't think anyone has ever accused me of being an apologist for religion before. I'm reeling from the shock! Wink

I was making an observation about a change in a hitherto iron stance and asked the question "Anyone here think they could cope with such a life?" Personally, I think I would not, but I would do my best to shove a tyre lever into the tiny crack in this particular closet doorway. Cheerleader2

Of course, as in your case, we make changes by doing the best we can with the tools available to us. Presumably there is an active campaign group trying to change the law in your state? :confused:
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#9
CurtCB Wrote:I am to the point where I think gay people should be more militant. ...... Every oppressed minority in this country has come to the point where it had to act, Women, Blacks, and now it's time for gay people to say ENOUGH!!!

What sort of action are you suggesting?

CurtCB Wrote:I would love to be married and raise a family, but where I live being gay falls under lewd conduct laws.

Out of genuine interest, what sort of anti-gay laws (apart from those relating to marriage, etc.) still exist in an enforceable state following Lawrence v. Texas in the US Supreme Court?
Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#10
Louisiana still has anti-sodomy laws on it's books so do other southern states.
In Texas if you are gay you can't be considered for a foster parent.
I would like to see us follow the lead of women and African Americans.
I guarantee if a million gay people marched on Washington. DOMA and don't ask, Don't tell will be repealed so fast it would make peoples head spin.
Unfortunately too many gay people find the status quo perfectly acceptable.
I have bigger dreams than that.
Until the day I can legally marry the man I love and raise a family as I see fit, I am a second class citizen in my own country.
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