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Stuff going on in Libya
#1
I'm a bit surprised that there's no thread about this at all. Well here is the latest stuff going on: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/us/pol...tml?src=se

For more on this: Current conflict reprises 1986 US-Libya clash

So what do you guys think? From what I heard, Moammar Gadhafi has been in Libya for several years. It looks like that the people of Libya are finally waking up and smelling the coffee by rebelling against this fascist and his enemies. I also heard that Moammar Gadhafi supports al-Qaeda. This guy needs to get out.

As of right now his whereabouts is unknown. I read in one news headline... Obama says Moammar Gadhafi will be destroyed in 2 days. Two days have passed... it didn't happen. To me it seems like Obama is pulling off a George W. Bush. History has repeated itself... the only thing is it's happening in Libya, not Iraq.

Discuss away!
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#2
UltraDude Wrote:From what I heard, Moammar Gadhafi has been in Libya for several years.

42 years actually.

UltraDude Wrote:It looks like that the people of Libya are finally waking up and smelling the coffee by rebelling against this fascist and his enemies.

To be honest I strongly suspect that many in Libya would have rather been rid of him for many years, but believed a revolt would fail and cost many lives in the process. Recent events in North Africa have, I believe, changed their minds.

UltraDude Wrote:I also heard that Moammar Gadhafi supports al-Qaeda.

I hear that accusation from time to time, I've never heard any evidence to support it. That said I certainly wouldn't put it past him. I, at least, have no idea who would take power if Gadaffi were removed. I would not take it for granted that they would not support al-Qaeda

UltraDude Wrote:I read in one news headline... Obama says Moammar Gadhafi will be destroyed in 2 days. Two days have passed... it didn't happen.

Anyone who believed that absurd headline, in my view, knows worryingly little about war.

UltraDude Wrote:To me it seems like Obama is pulling off a George W. Bush. History has repeated itself... the only thing is it's happening in Libya, not Iraq.

I see no evidence of that whatsoever. Obama hasn't committed the Army. If Obama wants to get rid of Gadaffi and his regime himself it requires the Army and some soldiers will get killed. If Obama merely wants to support the rebels he can take out the Libyan Air Force, bomb a few key strategic buildings and supply arms to the rebels. I really do not think this will be another Iraq, on the other hand, that does not necessarily mean it will work out well.
Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#3
A few musings on this one...

There is a similar situation going on in a few African states, Egypt, Ivory Coast, Zimbabwi, et al but we're not steaming in to any of those places all guns blazing. Supose it depends on weather your national product is oil or goats.

A few months ago, Gadaffi was Tony Blaires "Friend in Africa".

Are we going to war on the pretext of protecting the ordinary people from Gadaffi, I hope not, they were after all the same peoplw who were waving the flags when trhe lokerbie bomber landed in Tripolli last year and the same sort of people who would bay for the flogging and hanging of any unfortunate unwitting western teacher who makes the mistake of naming her class Teddy Bear Mohamed.

I smell cheap oil!
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#4
Vigilias Wrote:-/-

I smell cheap oil!


Same here ....

and I always become nervous if the US are involved in a fair, fast and legitimate War....

would this "help" happen when Libya has no oil ... only bananas or Tomatoes?

Today morning I have heard in the news that Gaddafi´s Air defense is destroyed .... uhhh.... great news ... but ...why the war don´t stop now ?

May the goddess protect us from good wills and humanitary Help....
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#5
I agree we would care less if there was not the lifeblood of our economy (oil) there.

You would condemn millions to tyranny because a few hundred turned up to cheer a man who was made a scapegoat by his own government?
Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#6
I don't know who to believe, but I sure as hell don't believe any propaganda that seems to come from Gadhaffi's direction. It has suited the west to portray him as a lunatic for many years. Whether he is or not he has been behind some brutal acts and seems quite likely to have made his fingers sticky with other people's pies. However, I was strongly opposed to bombing Libya in the 1980s and I have no more enthusiasm for it now. I don't know whether to believe that he has no other friends amongst the Arab nations, but I doubt the current campaign will have to endure for much longer before he has. Did I really hear that, among them, only Qatar has provided air-support for enforcing a no-fly zone?

There are human rights abuses going on all over the world. It sickens me to the core that our government feels the need to get our armed forces involved in yet another fight that cannot end well or, indeed, as quickly as we are expected to believe.

What is it about a Prime Minister's personality that makes our last few PMs decide to wage war on some other country? I would love to be proven wrong, but I doubt that humanitarian considerations are uppermost in the decisions as to which fights to get involved in. I don't suppose we'll be taking on China over Tibet any time soon, just as we continued to arm the Indonesian government while their forces were exterminating the East Timorese.

Just my very jaundiced and ill-informed view, of course :mad:
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#7
Again...it is about the oil! Shame on Obama. We have already seen the US government sanctioned propaganda being spread on these foreign social networking sites ...these people think they are a grassroots movement much like the Koch Drones think the Tea Party is a grassroots movement...they are both driven by propaganda and these people are being harnessed using their very real concerns by powerful entities who have figured out that they can get these "grassroots" movements to do their dirty work.

There are far worse dictators who slaughter far more people in Africa daily and I don't see the "good folks" of the Western World bombing them. We are so full of sh*t. If we really want to help people...let's start in North Korea. Too bad they don't have any oil.
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#8
To those who are criticising oil as a reason for action, would you prefer it if western governments did not ensure a steady supply of oil?

Also East, supposing the White House were to suffer an attack of moral principle and want to do something about North Korea. They would remember that it has one of the world's largest standing armies and China regards it as it's vassal state, not America's.
Fred

Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
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#9
To those who are criticising oil as a reason for action, would you prefer it if western governments did not ensure a steady supply of oil?

Good Question Fred...and I have given this alot of thought. In my humble opinion...I think honesty would be the first step in taming the beast. The beast I refer to is the lust for power...and greed. IF we were honest and called a spade a spade...if we told ourselves the truth about why we are willing to slaughter people and impose our will on other nations so we have what we need it actually might be easier to stomach. Americans are really delusional when it comes to our role on the world stage. Many think we are the hero when we are truly the villain...so my suggestion would be to own the role of the villain that we are.
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#10
Also East, supposing the White House were to suffer an attack of moral principle and want to do something about North Korea. They would remember that it has one of the world's largest standing armies and China regards it as it's vassal state, not America's.

We are essentially bullies...and bullies always figure out who they can pick on. The problem is we paint ourselves as Heroes...it is sickening.

I think we need to start telling the truth...and the truth is ugly.

Two words folks: RENEWABLE ENERGY!
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