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What's on Your Mind
(06-23-2021, 11:52 PM)Chase Wrote:  - - - - - - -That doesn't factor AI into the equation. Imagine a machine capable of mining asteroids and using the resources to either build something for its owner or a copy of itself.  - - - - - -
Another possibility is the entire universe we now find ourselves in is the creation of an artificial intelligence which has no interest in our survival. Not that such an entity would be concerned one way or the other I suspect. 

On the other hand, given our species entrenched delusional behavior, all these questions will soon be irrelevant :-
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...-un-report

And from 1965 :- 
The Human Race is Insane.
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(06-23-2021, 11:52 PM)Chase Wrote: With all due respect, you are misinterpreting what I meant by great filters, and missing many premises to hypothetical advanced alien civilisations that have been proposed.

"Filters" that block civilisations from becoming interstellar are biological, not  metaphysical. They are atheistic. They have nothing to do with "greater purposes" whatsoever.

Oh I know what you mean by "great filters"

I kind of changed directions on you there. I kind of got a little philosophical on the whole self-deprecation... the whole thing that the human race sucks, everyone sucks...you suck, I suck...


(06-23-2021, 11:52 PM)Chase Wrote: You also greatly underestimate the sheer potential of a civilisations- including humans - that can be possibly, whether breakthroughs in space travel are invented or not.

Without a sci-fi level breakthrough, humans (or any ET civilisations) could still:

Permanently establish an infrastructure in space that could support the entire species that would pay for itself. Break in down to money and economics - before it cost millions of dollars for every one person to get to space, thanks to reusable rockets, it now costs hundreds of thousands. If you understand the economics concept of economy of scales, you would know that mass scale immigration to space would cut this cost down. We can recycle the excess fuel of the rockets to get their with modern technology that is capable of extracting carbon dioxide from the air and turning it back into fuel.

Getting out of the gravity well of Earth is the biggest of obstacle, but doable. In space, it will be far more cheaper. For example, it take the same amount of fuel for a rocket to blast out of Earth's gravity well as it does to go from Earth's orbit to Mars.

Don't you dare say anything about radiation. I'm so sick of hearing that argument against space travel. It's become the anti-space equivalent of creationists saying there is still monkeys. We can hollow out asteroids, or beef up a space stations layers. Gravity can be stimulated through centripetal acceleration (spinning space habitats) or linear acceleration.

An Orion class rocket that relies on using small mini nuclear bombs for propulsion can propel a ship to reach nearby stars within a century.

A century is a blink of an eye to the age of the universe. With known science, humans could colonize the entire galaxy in hundreds of thousands of years. A blink of an eye to the universe.

What I meant by how nuclear annihilation may be a great filter that explains why we haven't been visited is that even though the universe is vast, it is still billions of years old, so even if life is incredibly rare, it would explain why Earth hasn't been visited by an alien civilisation millions of years ahead of us from somewhere else in the galaxy or nearby galaxies. Although, my speculation is that the reason is that space colonization in the form of a Dyson Swarm of a species native star would prove more economy as it can support trillions upon trillions of people.

That doesn't factor AI into the equation. Imagine a machine capable of mining asteroids and using the resources to either build something for its owner or a copy of itself. Such a machine is often called a Van Nuemann probe. These machines could turn into galactic scale locusts from their exponential multiplication. We could have them build space habitats the size of planets. We could cover a gas giant in a shell at the 1G level and make an Earth that is hundreds of times bigger than Earth but still have its gravity. All without breaking any known laws of physics (to my speculation, I do not claim to be a physicist or any other kind of scientist).

That is the tragedy of the human race. We could be living in a utopia that is beyond comprehension, but instead we may destroy ourselves.

*sigh* I suppose all of that is valid. I suppose only time will tell whether or not we're a bunch of dumb monkeys that blew themselves up or are actually special.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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(06-24-2021, 12:18 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: *sigh* I suppose all of that is valid. I suppose only time will tell whether or not we're a bunch of dumb monkeys that blew themselves up or are actually special.

In an atheistic universe, becoming a space ferrying, multiplanetary, interstellar, or even intergalactic species, with megastructure space habitats, is nothing to do with being special. We can still be a bunch of dumb monkeys who are capable of living in a sci-fi level future. After all, we are a bunch of dumb monkeys who are capable of destroying the entire planet. In fact, in the example I gave of Iain Banks's Culture Series universe, it is canonically atheistic, and Iain Banks was an atheist. In Banks's series, "the Culture" are an interstellar, post-scarcity civilization of mostly *humanoids* that live symbiotically with AI, particularly "the Minds" - hyper-intelligent AI that are incomprehensively more intelligent than biologic lifeforms. They mostly live on starships the size of continents or planets, or space habitats called orbitals that have a surface area hundreds of times that of Earth, complete with oceans, deserts, jungles, etc. You see, the Culture didn't *take to the stars* to become "special," they did it for pure hedonistic reasons. You see, the Culture is, in their own words, hedonists. And when I say hedonists, I mean they have orgies and have genetically engineered themselves to have drug glands that can get them high on a moment's notice.

Humans can and should take to the stars, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with being special, but to satisfy our "dumb monkey" needs. My main fear is if we can take to the stars in-time. It's all a matter of time. The world could end from a nuclear war at this very moment, just now. But if we take to the stars, at least we can fly our space habitats away from any power-hungry faction that thinks it's a good idea to stockpile nukes.
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(06-24-2021, 02:08 AM)Chase Wrote:
(06-24-2021, 12:18 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: *sigh* I suppose all of that is valid. I suppose only time will tell whether or not we're a bunch of dumb monkeys that blew themselves up or are actually special.

In an atheistic universe, becoming a space ferrying, multiplanetary, interstellar, or even intergalactic species, with megastructure space habitats, is nothing to do with being special. We can still be a bunch of dumb monkeys who are capable of living in a sci-fi level future. After all, we are a bunch of dumb monkeys who are capable of destroying the entire planet. In fact, in the example I gave of Iain Banks's Culture Series universe, it is canonically atheistic, and Iain Banks was an atheist. In Banks's series, "the Culture" are an interstellar, post-scarcity civilization of mostly *humanoids* that live symbiotically with AI, particularly "the Minds" - hyper-intelligent AI that are incomprehensively more intelligent than biologic lifeforms. They mostly live on starships the size of continents or planets, or space habitats called orbitals that have a surface area hundreds of times that of Earth, complete with oceans, deserts, jungles, etc. You see, the Culture didn't *take to the stars* to become "special," they did it for pure hedonistic reasons. You see, the Culture is, in their own words, hedonists. And when I say hedonists, I mean they have orgies and have genetically engineered themselves to have drug glands that can get them high on a moment's notice.

Humans can and should take to the stars, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with being special, but to satisfy our "dumb monkey" needs. My main fear is if we can take to the stars in-time. It's all a matter of time. The world could end from a nuclear war at this very moment, just now. But if we take to the stars, at least we can fly our space habitats away from any power-hungry faction that thinks it's a good idea to stockpile nukes.
I wonder why you appear to imagine our species won’t take it’s war mongering instincts out into the stars..
The Human Race is Insane.
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(06-24-2021, 08:56 PM)Karl Rand Wrote: I wonder why you appear to imagine our species won’t take it’s war mongering instincts out into the stars..

I didn't say we won't. Hence why I said if we lived in space habitats, we could at least move them if another faction decided to get hostile. The fragility of a space habitat gives another level MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), and if we spread out into the cosmos thin enough, it would prevent one single war from ending the entire species.
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Why do so many people hate oatmeal cookies? They're delicious.
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(06-25-2021, 01:05 AM)Chase Wrote: Why do so many people hate oatmeal cookies? They're delicious.

Because chocolate chip is bestest cookie.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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Oh but getting back to aliens and shit, I don't know that we'll nuke each other but there is a chance that the global economy collapses putting everything into chaos, causing another dark age.
"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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(06-25-2021, 02:05 AM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: I don't know that we'll nuke each other

We're actually the closest we've ever been to a nuclear Armageddon. 


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@Chase I'm not a fan of fear mongering videos. Not saying what's in this video is a lie or anything but it is a hypothetical. This could happen. But I feel it is very unlikely despite all the risks. Videos like this are designed to incite anxiety and fear for views, for attention, for clicks. Take a look at those videos about various conspiracy theories, don't pay attention to the nonsense, just the format and the tactics they use in their videos, then go back and rewatch this and you'll see what I'm getting at (if you can tolerate watching them)....although in this case there are facts but a lot of conjecture, in my opinion, about what could happen and why it might happen. Stay away from the FUD stuff.

I used to watch a lot of stuff on all sorts of conspiracies, things like the illuminati, the freemasons and how the world was going to end many times over way back, like 8-10 years ago. Now, I'm not comparing this with a conspiracy theory but consuming that content and this does the same thing. It makes us anxious and fearful, cynical about the future. Not saying stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing bad ever happens, but also consider the source. Why did they publish this video? Chances are it is to make money by making clickbait videos, which is what it is if you ask me.

Remember that fear sells.

That being said, I'm not saying that any of this is good, or that I'm giving a pass. Frankly, I'm not going to spend any time verifying the claims in the video looking for all the holes and problems...I also would say that the creators of a lot of these videos count on you not looking into it either.

I think that just like "you are what you eat," that your emotions, your state of mind are very much influenced by what you consume. So instead of consuming things that evoke negative emotions (fear, anxiety, anger, grief and so on), consume things that evoke good feelings and are positive. So, how about Bob Ross instead of nuclear holocaust. I don't think anyone can watch an episode of "The Joy of Painting" and not feel better by the end, regardless of whether you paint or not.

"I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert, but I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
Check out my stuff!
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