(05-27-2020, 08:54 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: Frank Zappa was one who thought this was the case, that the media outlets would change topics to manipulate the public in order to either steer people away from some current event or towards another.

As far as ranting. I don't see your post being a rant. I do rant...sometimes I ramble... Sometimes I just write out whatever pops in my mind. I really ought to check out those books you mentioned.

Yeah. Sorry I deleted most of what I wrote in an edit, I have a habit of doing that. I mentioned the D's and R's, and I didn't want to bring politics into this thread. Politics really did a number on GS in 2016, so I'm hoping we can handle whatever happens this November this time around.

One of my history professors, one who happens to be the "truther," had an interesting take on the media - in fascism, the government controls the media, in the US, the media controls the government, effectively just making us on another side of the coin of fascism. Fringe news networks and social media don't offer a healthy alternative, unfortunately. If I had to pick a news outlet, I'd probably pick NPR or BBC, but I prefer to just scan the headlines on Google. I'm still letting a powerful Silicon Valley company control what I see, but seeing a snapshot of what all the various networks are saying helps me reach more unbiased conclusions.

Yeah, politics... Moving right along!

Yes, NPR and BBC seem to be pretty good and fairly neutral. Newsy is nice too.

In terms of corporations, only 5 companies run major media outlets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrat...p#Top_Five

That is a bit concerning. Most of these companies own a ton of brands and have other subsidiaries. So I do think when public policy either works against or for these companies, you can probably bet it will make the headlines at some point. I don't think all news headlines are headlines because something is good or bad for the companies, but a lot of it is scripted anyway. I do believe that we are heavily influenced by whatever these companies, their subsidiaries and stakeholders want to push. Does that mean everything on the news is bad or misleading? No. I think some of the things that have got the spotlight lately in the news is good that it is getting more attention...

But yeah politics, it hard to discuss openly on a public forum, even when most people are for the most part in agreement on many topics.

Yeah, where do people get these silly ideas...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/su...index.html

Quote:US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams not only wants people to stop buying facemasks to prevent the novel coronavirus, but warns that you actually might increase your risk of infection if facemasks are not worn properly.

"You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider," Adams said during an interview on Fox & "Folks who don't know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus," Adams said.

"We're certainly seeing more spread in communities, but it's important for folks to know that right now their risk as American citizens remains low. There are things people can do to stay safe. There are things they shouldn't be doing and one of the things they shouldn't be doing in the general public is going out and buying masks," he said.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/202003...-says.aspx

Quote:Panic buying and the hoarding of face masks to protect from the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) may not be a good idea, says a health expert. It puts you at an increased risk of contracting the virus.

Dr. Jenny Harries, England's deputy chief medical officer, has warned that it was not a good idea for the public to wear facemasks as the virus can get trapped in the material and causes infection when the wearer breathes in.

For the public, they should not wear facemasks unless they are sick, and if a healthcare worker advised them.
"For the average member of the public walking down a street, it is not a good idea," Dr. Harries said.
"What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won't wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven't cleaned," she added.

Makes you wonder. I mean surely these people aren't that dumb. So begs the question, why are they saying this nonsense?

However, when it comes to panic buying, that kind of makes sense. if you're driving all over town for toilet paper and god knows what else. Stopping at 5-6 stores to stock up or look for certain things when you would normally go to one or two place can be somewhat risky. The more places you go and longer does add to risk.

Regarding our infotainment driven media...  they are in it for the bottom line, like any other business. That is driving very poor decisions.

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

https://www.ibtimes.com/msnbc-producer-r...ws-3022307

Quote:"July 24th was my last day at MSNBC. I don’t know what I’m going to do next exactly but I simply couldn’t stay there anymore. My colleagues are very smart people with good intentions. The problem is the job itself. It forces skilled journalists to make bad decisions on a daily basis," she stated.

Continuing, she added that the editorial decisions that are currently in place and the emphasis on how stories "rate" caused her to reconsider her position. This, she said, was "practically baked in to the editorial process" and affected the content that was shown each day.

As a result, Pekary said the news network has an incentive to "amplify fringe voices" and block diversity of thought, as doing so bolsters ratings. Elaborating, she said that President Donald Trump's poor handling of the coronavirus pandemic could get coverage over the ongoing science surrounding potential vaccines, COVID transmission, or antibodies. Additionally, she expressed her concern that Trump could also be prioritized over presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden or sharing information about mail-in voting.

"Important facts or studies get buried," she wrote.

As for what's ahead for the former producer, Pekary stated that she's heading back to Virginia and reconnecting with "family, friends, and a community of independent journalists."

"And so very soon, I’m going to be seeking you out, any one of you who also may sense that the news is fundamentally flawed and is frustrated by it. This effort will start informally but I hope to crystallize a plan for when better, safer days are upon us," she later said, adding that more than ever she is now "craving a full and civil discourse."

Let's look at another controversy, Hydroxychloroquine...

I would say the third article is the best of these, the drug can be a life saving saving course of treatment if given at the right time, and with other drugs.  Or, maybe more analysis is needed.  At this point, I don't know. The press is failing us, yet again, because they have an agenda.

And that agenda is not reporting a fair and neutral look at things.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/21/health/hy...index.html

Quote:Coronavirus patients taking hydroxychloroquine, a treatment touted by President Trump, were no less likely to need mechanical ventilation and had higher deaths rates compared to those who did not take the drug, according to a study of hundreds of patients at US Veterans Health Administration medical centers.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hy...index.html

Quote:A surprising new study found the controversial antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine helped patients better survive in the hospital. But the findings, like the federal government's use of the drug itself, were disputed.

A team at Henry Ford Health System in southeast Michigan said Thursday their study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.
Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died, compared to 13% of those who got the drug. The team looked back at everyone treated in the hospital system since the first patient in March.

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/5...hloroquine

Quote:Since the pandemic from China first hit America with brute force early in March, it has become apparent to physicians that the medicine works best when — as with any anti-infective agent — it is given early in the course of the infection. Moreover, hospitalization can be avoided if treatment starts within the first day of symptoms. 

While HCQ alone has been found by numerous studies to reduce mortality rates, severity of symptoms, and length of hospital stays, it also can be combined with zinc and either azithromycin or doxycycline, followed by corticosteroids (prednisone, dexamethasone), and in some cases anticoagulants — all working together for improved outcomes. For each one of these drugs, there is both a good scientific rationale and either early clinical trials completed or planned with sufficient promise.

Of these drugs, only HCQ was singled out as a political football early in spring — right after President Trump urged the medical community to consider HCQ. At the time, one of Trump’s top medical advisers, Dr. Anthony Fauci, stated that if a COVID-19 patient were under his care, he would use HCQ, preferably in a clinical trial protocol. Fauci, however, has since backed away from that statement and his opposition has become a rallying cry of the left-leaning mainstream media’s “Hydroxy Hysteria.”

The politicization of HCQ is an ongoing tragedy. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) has more than 60 million HCQ tablets sitting in its warehouses. Absent a new Emergency Use Authorization, FEMA cannot ship this valuable medicine for appropriate “off-label” treatment of COVID-19 patients. Nor can hospitals or clinics easily recruit patients for the kind of randomized clinical trials needed to ultimately settle the question of how HCQ might best be used in the fight against COVID-19. Should it be purely in early treatment, as a prophylactic for health care workers or senior home patients at risk, in outpatient versus hospital settings, or in other settings?

Hydroxychloroquine *might* help and might also make it worse and could potentially make things worse. The studies I've looked at show that it might help a few people. I would say it is a coin toss but it's not even a coin toss. If the drug worked then every study would clearly show this. If I were to show you a study done on Excedrin on its efficacy against migraines it would clearly show the drug works... https://www.mdedge.com/internalmedicine/...igraine-ed

This is not the case with hydroxychloroquine. Nor is it as safe as something like tylenol as it can cause more harm than good in some cases. This is a new virus which we know very little about, there simply hasn't been enough time to conduct good studies. This one here had nearly 700 patients (still small) but if you ask me, if the drug worked well it would be far more evident.... https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

The whole response to the coronavirus in the US is a tragedy. The fact that so many people think wearing a mask is a political statement or a conspiracy is insane, but we're here.

I wasn't trying to comment on the efficacy of HCQ, only the coverage of it in the media.  There is evidence that it doesn't work in later stages of the disease, but might work for initial stages, and possibly has some prophylactic effect. But the way the media in the US is covering it, it's poison and will kill you faster.  Which would be news to all the people who take it for malaria.

Can you agree that the coverage was overblown and seems more designed at ding President Trumps support for it than trying to present the facts of the various studies in a reasonable, non-alarmist manner? 

That's all I'm getting at, media bias in presenting the facts. I'd be fine if they said, the facts are murky and more study is needed. But that's not what they did.

=======================

We can take other controversies and pick them apart. The RIOTS in Portland are another prime example.

Did you know they've had 60+ nights of violence in Portland? Well before additional Federal officers were tasked with protecting the Federal courthouse there, and continuing after they've lowered their visible presence.

Regardless of your stance on ANTIFA, accurate reporting is what the media ought to be doing, so people can form opinions based on what is actually happening, not by only what the media wants to show you.

A lot of bias in the media isn't overt, it's in what they decide to cover and how they cover it.

=======================

P.S. I know plenty of people who get migraines and over the counter medicine doesn't do much of anything for them, including Excedrin.

P.P.S. do you see any ad on tv for a medicine which does not include a bunch of side effects of that medicine, some of which are worse than what the medicine is supposedly curing...

Here's how the media (IMO) would present this if President Trump came out and said, Excedrin might help if you have a migraine...

OH MY GOD, look at all these harmful side-effects of Excedrin, Trump is trying to kill people with bad medical advice.

Quote:Excedrin side effects
Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction to Excedrin: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.
In rare cases, acetaminophen may cause a severe skin reaction that can be fatal. This could occur even if you have taken acetaminophen in the past and had no reaction. Stop taking Excedrin and call your doctor right away if you have skin redness or a rash that spreads and causes blistering and peeling. If you have this type of reaction, you should never again take any medicine that contains acetaminophen.
Stop using Excedrin and call your doctor at once if you have:

• severe anxiety, agitation, confusion, panic;
  
  
• easy bruising or bleeding;
  
  
• a light-headed feeling, like you might pass out;
  
  
• if you feel very thirsty or hot, are unable to urinate, and have heavy sweating or hot and dry skin;
  
  
• symptoms of stomach bleeding--bloody or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;
  
  
• high potassium--slow heart rate, weak pulse, muscle weakness, tingly feeling; or
  
  
• liver problems--nausea, upper stomach pain, itching, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes).
  

Common Excedrin side effects may include:

• upset stomach, heartburn;
  
  
• depressed mood, feeling anxious or restless; or
  
  
• sleep problems (insomnia).
  

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur.

(08-09-2020, 06:09 PM)kindy64 Wrote: I wasn't trying to comment on the efficacy of HCQ, only the coverage of it in the media.  There is evidence that it doesn't work in later stages of the disease, but might work for initial stages, and possibly has some prophylactic effect. But the way the media in the US is covering it, it's poison and will kill you faster.  Which would be news to all the people who take it for malaria.

Can you agree that the coverage was overblown and seems more designed at ding President Trumps support for it than trying to present the facts of the various studies in a reasonable, non-alarmist manner? 

That's all I'm getting at, media bias in presenting the facts. I'd be fine if they said, the facts are murky and more study is needed. But that's not what they did.

Hype in media is a problem, been a problem for some time. As far as the hype surrounding HCQ being aimed to hurt Trump's reputation, I mean, there's plenty to pick at on Trump specifically. So, sure the media took advantage. You also can't deny that Trump has repeatedly ignored the experts, said it would disappear when China had over 60,000 cases.

What I do recall was Trump promoting the drug. He's not a doctor, he went against what experts told him, yet he did it anyway. Media did state that we don't know enough about the drug and not enough studies or data proves its efficacy. Of course they did it in a way to make Trump look bad because he's publically promoting an proven drug. I mean is that not what happened?

(08-09-2020, 06:09 PM)kindy64 Wrote: We can take other controversies and pick them apart. The RIOTS in Portland are another prime example.

Did you know they've had 60+ nights of violence in Portland? Well before additional Federal officers were tasked with protecting the Federal courthouse there, and continuing after they've lowered their visible presence.

Regardless of your stance on ANTIFA, accurate reporting is what the media ought to be doing, so people can form opinions based on what is actually happening, not by only what the media wants to show you.

A lot of bias in the media isn't overt, it's in what they decide to cover and how they cover it.

Yes the reporting on Portland and BLM are night and day depending on where you get the news. There is good and bad about the protests. You know they were picking up protesters (and when I refer to protester I mean peaceful protester) putting bags over their heads shoving them into unmarked vans? When did that become acceptable? Whether you support the reasons for protesting you should be very concerned that this is happening. The ways they went about doing this are at the very least in a gray area of legality.

I think we can both agree that media shouldn't be biased one way or another. They report based on what will get them viewership. If it is Fox News it is death panels in Obamacare, it gets the boomers riled up. If it's CNN it's Trump mocking a disabled journalist, it's gets millennials riled up. It is all geared for outrage because outrage gets viewers. We turn on the news and all we can say is "Oh dear."

(08-09-2020, 06:09 PM)kindy64 Wrote: P.S. I know plenty of people who get migraines and over the counter medicine doesn't do much of anything for them, including Excedrin.

P.P.S. do you see any ad on tv for a medicine which does not include a bunch of side effects of that medicine, some of which are worse than what the medicine is supposedly curing...

Here's how the media (IMO) would present this if President Trump came out and said, Excedrin might help if you have a migraine...

OH MY GOD, look at all these harmful side-effects of Excedrin, Trump is trying to kill people with bad medical advice.

Quote:Excedrin side effects
Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction to Excedrin: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.
In rare cases, acetaminophen may cause a severe skin reaction that can be fatal. This could occur even if you have taken acetaminophen in the past and had no reaction. Stop taking Excedrin and call your doctor right away if you have skin redness or a rash that spreads and causes blistering and peeling. If you have this type of reaction, you should never again take any medicine that contains acetaminophen.
Stop using Excedrin and call your doctor at once if you have:

• severe anxiety, agitation, confusion, panic;
  
  
• easy bruising or bleeding;
  
  
• a light-headed feeling, like you might pass out;
  
  
• if you feel very thirsty or hot, are unable to urinate, and have heavy sweating or hot and dry skin;
  
  
• symptoms of stomach bleeding--bloody or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;
  
  
• high potassium--slow heart rate, weak pulse, muscle weakness, tingly feeling; or
  
  
• liver problems--nausea, upper stomach pain, itching, loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes).
  

Common Excedrin side effects may include:

• upset stomach, heartburn;
  
  
• depressed mood, feeling anxious or restless; or
  
  
• sleep problems (insomnia).
  

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur.

Oh I know stuff like Tylenol and Excedrin don't help everyone. Tylenol doesn't help me but Excedrin does. Or in the case of my mom, doesn't help her but that's because she has a brain tumor (which appears to be benign considering they found it in 1992), probably an extreme example. The point I'm making about Tylenol and Excedrin is that studies showing the efficacy of those medicines for treating headaches is very obvious and every study you can find will show that clearly. This is not the case with HCQ in the treatment of COVID-19, it is not obvious, we get a kind of sorta maybe to a no benefit at all.

More studies needed? Sure, but I hardly think it is appropriate for any medical professional or a sitting president to publicly promote it to the general public which let's be frank doesn't have a fucking clue 

Oh and yes, Tylenol, Excedrin and the alike can be very bad if you have problems like say your liver is in bad shape or if you have stomach ulcers and so on... HCQ can screw up your heart...permanently. The sad thing about the COVID-19 data is when they say recovered it doesn't mean they're back to normal. It's sometimes months to full recovery and other have permanent damage to their lungs, heart and other organs. This is really reminiscent of Polio...not everyone got really sick but the ones who did either died or was put in an Iron Lung...and those who recovered often had post-polio syndrome some 15 years or more later. So, we're really at the very beginning of this unfortunately. The sentiment that public officials shouldn't be held accountable for the things they do and say is insulting, they should be. Whether you're a republican, libertarian, or a bleeding-heart liberal you should be disgusted and outraged with the Trump administration and everything they've done to this point. I can't think of any valid point or reason why someone should support Trump at this point.

Quote:You know they were picking up protesters (and when I refer to protester I mean peaceful protester) putting bags over their heads shoving them into unmarked vans?

Where did you come up with that one?  Seems like an overstatement of what I've seen.  Cursory search, not one media article with "arrest unmarked van blindfolded."

Can police officers in an unmarked vehicle, arrest someone and put them in the vehicle? Yes, they can and they have done so for decades.  They may be unmarked, but I bet you generally know what undercover police cars your town or city uses don't you?  Our little town of less than 4,000 residents has an undercover Z/28 and a 4 door RAM pickup they use for speed traps. I'd assume they could use those for high risk warrant apprehensions as well.

Do they sometimes get the wrong person?  Yes they do, and they have been doing that for decades as well.  Does this presupposed some dangerous slide towards an authoritarian state?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/nyp...r-BB17iGUk

Quote:"When officers from the Warrant Squad took the woman into custody in a gray NYPD minivan this evening, they were assaulted with rocks and bottles. The Warrant Squad uses unmarked vehicles to effectively locate wanted suspects," another tweet read.

"When she was placed into the Warrant Squad's unmarked gray minivan, it was behind a cordon of NYPD bicycle cops in bright yellow and blue uniform shirts there to help effect the arrest," the thread continued.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/feds-u...-portland/

Quote:CBP agents had information indicating the person in the video was suspected of assaults against federal agents or destruction of federal property. Once CBP agents approached the suspect, a large and violent mob moved towards their location. For everyone’s safety, CBP agents quickly moved the suspect to a safer location for further questioning. The CBP agents identified themselves and were wearing CBP insignia during the encounter. The names of the agents were not displayed due to recent doxing incidents against law enforcement personnel who serve and protect our country.

=====================

You ought to also be disgusted and dismayed about the state of our emergency preparedness was left in following the last administration.

The bigger and more complicated government is, the easier it is for this stuff to slip between the cracks.  Our present situation with EVERYTHING isn't one persons fault, nor one political parties fault.  It's EVERYONE's fault.  Politicians for not having foresight. The MEDIA for being partisan and biased.  Citizens for not holding politicians and the media accountable equally.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/

Quote:The federal government knew about a shortage of protective masks going back to 2009, after the H1N1 virus, but didn’t replenish its supply for the next pandemic, which arrived this year with the highly contagious coronavirus.
H1N1, also known as the swine flu, drew down about 100 million N95 protective respirator masks. 
Afterward, an H1N1 task force recommended that the Obama administration replace the masks in the national stockpile, according to reporting by the Los Angeles Times and Bloomberg News. 
“If the Obama administration didn’t respond to a request for additional masks, and if they did not communicate that need to the incoming [Trump] administration, that would certainly make the present situation more difficult,” Amy Anderson, a registered nurse and co-founder of the Global Nurse Consultants Alliance, told The Daily Signal in a phone interview.