Bully-cide and Justice.

[dfiant]

Just a question to make sure i'm gauging you right; are you suggesting legal action against all bullying, or only bullying resulting in suicide of the victim? __________________

I am advocating that the punishment should fit the crime, bullying is a crime like domestic abuse without the domestic, child abuse without the child...abuse is a crime, bullying is abuse in every sense of the word.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I had a lot of respect for you until I read this. Nice work, give people a Label, or a disease to hide behind and justify the unjustifiable.

Violence is not an illness. So now we can stop blaming murders who murder, rapists who rape, woman beaters for beating women because they have an illness????

Come on, that is the worst possible load of bullshit that could fall from an intelligent mans mouth.

Bullying is abuse, subduing a victim into submission for their own personal gain....just like rapists, spousal abusers etc.

Actually blame and punishment doesn't correct those behaviors either. And to one extent or another most so called 'criminal' behaviors are actually symptoms of mental/emotional illness.

Abusers are sick - mentally/emotionally unwell. Trust me, I have been at the hands of abusers in my life, starting with my parents. I know how they operate and the first and the last impression I always got is 'this is insane'.

And it is insane - bullying is insane, murder is insane, domestic violence is insane, rape is insane.

Insane.

I have been in and out of various types of therapy dealing with the emotional garbage left behind by abusers in my life. Every single therapist and group and what not has affirmed time and time again that abusers are sick people.

We label these things as 'criminal' and treat them far differently than we treat other insanities, instead of setting up health care and institutionalizing the worst cases, we warehouse them and expect a cell-block full of insane individuals to spontaneously heal one another. This tactic didn't work in the house of bedlam, it is not going to work in prisons.

There are depressed people on this board who are talking about committing violence and murder that come to this board. Should we round them up, punish them for these crimes, or should we instead seek to help them?

A bully is doing the same thing, granted his/her destructive behavior is not obviously targeting themselves, but it is the same types of behaviors as others use on themselves - cutting, attempting suicide, etc.

Most (not all) bullies didn't just happen, they were created, created by the self same forms of abuse that created a suicidal, drug addicted, self destructive person that posts here under the name Bowyn Aerrow. Whereas I took all the crap and garbage dished out on me and turned it in on myself and made myself my only victim, bullies (and domestic abusers, and other violent types) turn that garbage and crap outward onto another target.

Making a law that criminalizes certain behaviors does not end those behaviors.

Prisons don't work. Never have and never will. If they did work then we would see less criminals, instead we see more and more - and with more laws making more things into crimes, more people come afoul of the law and end up in prison where they pick up more insanities being locked up with other insane individuals.

If you want to punish a bully, then please do punish me. I have bullied myself and abused myself in ways that no one else can possibly do it. I killed myself for Christ's sake - care to punish me for that?!?!?!

[dfiant]

Abusers are sick - mentally/emotionally unwell. Trust me, I have been at the hands of abusers in my life, starting with my parents. I know how they operate and the first and the last impression I always got is 'this is insane'.

Can't agree with that. The people that bullied me for the better part of 6 years have gone on to great careers, lovely family, and great direction in life while I will suffer the trust issues, the pushing people away that want to get close to me or help me because I don't feel comfortable being helped because I have always been the one to help me.

Shove your illness crap up your arse, because it IS bullying that made me 'sick'

[Inchante]

I think that Genersis has a more practical and realistic understanding of the issue. The idea that someone should be tossed in prison because they called a person a name on one occasion, is ridiculous and would cause more problems than could possibly be dealt with.

Furthermore, prosecuting one individual for saying something that leads to another person committing suicide is also ridiculous . . . it shows what I would consider an ignorance of psychology and disregards the person responsibility and actions of the individual who commits suicide.

[dfiant]

Entertain us with your years of education in Pyscology then inchante.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Yes it's a complex problem, yes in many cases there are multiple offenders that can make it difficult to identify who tips the victim over the edge.

All this pussy footing around with 'it's too hard' is bullshit and serves to do nothing but empower the bullies because they are getting the message that there is no problem with bullying, and even if there is a problem what is the world going to do about it?

When it comes to choosing between saving a life of someone who is bullied to suicide and throwing the wrong person into prison...I would choose saving a life every single day of the week.

Get tough, prosecute and make bullying a hate crime.

Simple solution to a 'complex' (What a cop out) problem.

Now I understand that Australia was mostly a penal colony at one time, so perhaps living in prison is an ideal situation in the minds of some... but seriously, throw innocent people in prison because it might safe a life?


As a person who committed (past tense, I did the deed, stopped the heart and the lungs for a goodly amount of time (un)fortunately modern Medicine can pull people back from death) I can tell you that there is a person there who is responsible for that final act.

Yeah sure, life is hard and bullies don't make life easier, but the victim has to make that final choice and do something in order to end up dead.

Or are they excused from their personal behaviors whereas we can't excuse bullies?

Suicide is an insanity - Bullying is insanity - they are both mental defects, both abnormal behaviors. No sane person would contemplate doing either, thus we can conclude that these behaviors are insane.

We need to treat both as a mental health issue, not as criminal 'punishable by law' offenses. Once we start actually treating the mentally disturbed an start actually doing more than make more laws (thought crime laws whatever) and actually start treating the individuals who suffer from these ailments medically, we will find that a huge chunk of human issues will be relieved.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Can't agree with that. The people that bullied me for the better part of 6 years have gone on to great careers, lovely family, and great direction in life while I will suffer the trust issues, the pushing people away that want to get close to me or help me because I don't feel comfortable being helped because I have always been the one to help me.

Shove your illness crap up your arse, because it IS bullying that made me 'sick'

And there it is.

The real issue here is not bullies - the real issue is how you feel because of what bullies did to you.

This explains the irrational willingness to throw innocent people into jail. This also explains why you are unable to consider that punishment is not a viable alternative.

You are hurt and hurting.

I get it.

[dfiant]

Now I understand that Australia was mostly a penal colony at one time, so perhaps living in prison is an ideal situation in the minds of some... but seriously, throw innocent people in prison because it might safe a life?

Now I am just finding you exceptionally offensive and ignorant

[blokeinsussex]

I was bullied loads as a kid, as were a number of my friends.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about "bullies". Some do it for fun, some are damaged individuals who have underlying social and psychological reasons for their errant behaviour.

The former could usually be flipped round with humour and in a few cases I actually ended up very good friends with them, the latter is not so easy.

This may sound hypocritical but the latter tended to only understand fear and violence. Involving teachers did nothing but curb the intensity of their behaviour for a few days before it returned to normal, whereas enlisting the help of larger older boys to scare them away, or indeed taking care of it outside of school was the only way to make them stop.

Am I saying this is right? No, not by a long shot, but in the case of the bully who had the greatest effect on my life, there was no way I was going to be able to stitch his parents marriage back together and stop his father treating him like shit which looking back now I understand was the reason for his behaviour.

Can I excuse his behaviour because of this? No, it was wrong, regardless of his background. Do I feel bad for him now looking back? Absolutely.

As for Bowyn's comments they are so far wide of the mark as to be laughable. The real issue is how I feel about what was done to me? No, that's nonsense, I wasn't the one making my life hell.

In my case my bullying was solely based around my race. If an adult were to beat another adult because he was of a different race, that would be racially aggrivated assault and punishable in law.

Essentially what Bowyn is saying is "awww the poor widdle bully with his social problems, no wonder he acts like that towards other people." It's apologist nonsense.

Do I agree that there may be underlying issues causing the bully to be a bully? Sure, but to entirely excuse loathsome behaviour because of it is shortsighted and sends the wrong message to all concerned.

Bullying should be dealt with on the ground swiftly and strongly. It is unnacceptable and ruins lives.

Teachers should be more alert and try and discern the usual behaviour of mockery and play fighting (especially amongst boys) from bullying and yes, there should be defined structures in place which endeavour to help the bully where possible, but not at the expense of the person who has been bullied.

[dfiant]

And there it is.

The real issue here is not bullies - the real issue is how you feel because of what bullies did to you.

This explains the irrational willingness to throw innocent people into jail. This also explains why you are unable to consider that punishment is not a viable alternative.

You are hurt and hurting.

I get it.

You actually don't get anything BA, so don't pretend to be understanding and empathetic.

Bullying is a form of abuse, abuse is a crime, bullying should be punishable in the same way that abuse and other violent crimes are punishable.

I advocate making the punishment fit the crime, or have you missed the parts where I have actually said that????

YES I believe there are CRIMES that should land people in prison.

I despise the fact that you can hide crimes behind illness or sickness. Knowing the difference between right and wrong is not an illness, it is not a condition, it is not treatable by medicine. Yes there maybe illnesses behind bullying, but bullying itself is not an illness.

I did not asked to be bullied, but I am the one that bares the scares while the boys that bashed the crap out of me, tore the clothes from my body and on 2 occasions raped me, live their lives merrily and undamaged....how is that fair?

I'm not the only one that has this experience, I won't be the last, but i'll be fucked if I'll sit back and do nothing, and I'll be fucked if I ever forgive those perpetrators of those crimes against me and anyone else who suffers.

And I will not pretend for one split second that I would be horrified if I was to witness one of my bullies being strung up by the balls with piano wire with their own body weight castrating them...I wouldn't wish that on them because I am not like them...but I would be unmoved.

Punishment is the only alternative...and by punishment I mean anything from forced counselling, community service right upto prison....make the punishment fit the crime.