zimmermen and "stand your ground" laws

[jaxc]

Yes there is a problem with the law because he followed the person and there was a fight and he was losing so he shot the teen.

i'm assuming that's supposed to be some satiracle humor?

[jaxc]

if u need a gun your a coward... I say shop people who carry guns the world doesnt need them

having the most effective tool for the job( the job being actually defending yourself) doesn't make your coward, not willing to stand for your self and take your own life in your own hands does( besides you wouldn't call someone useing a vehical to get from place to place lazy would you?)

[Pix]

if u need a gun your a coward... I say shop people who carry guns the world doesnt need them

I know an elderly woman who came home to find an intruder--a young man taller, thicker, and more aggressive than her with her small, arthritic bones--waiting for her. As he came at her in a predatory way she said made her think he was TRYING to scare her, she pulled the gun she carried out of her purse. The guy stopped, turned, and ran out another door while she called the police.

I'll call her up and let her know you think she's a coward, and that you feel sorry for the intruder that threatened her that he had to live in fear of her gun.

[pellaz]

I'll call her up and let her know you think she's a coward, and that you feel sorry for the intruder that threatened her that he had to live in fear of her gun.

eeeeeeeeeeeeha

[Vigilias]

Here in the UK we have just seen the result of yet another tragic event when someone, this time a child, has been disabled for life because someone got hold of an illegal firearm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-bars.html

I know it's not EXACTLY the same sort of situation but why, oh why do you seem obsessed with owning private firearms in the USA? Look at the damage they do!

[Vigilias]

A life sentence with a tariff is insufficient in this case, those responsible where engaged in a joint enterprise when they fired a hand gun in to London shop. They intented to KILL someone but accidentelly shot a child through her spine. Only an indeterminate sentence will serve justice in this case.

[Pix]

why do you seem obsessed with owning private firearms in the USA? Look at the damage they do!

My guess is that a majority of Americans have been raised with guns (and most with no tragedy to speak of) and so the potential harm doesn't register. Sure, everyone knows accidents and worse happen, but that's no different from anything else. Far more children die in pools every year but there's no legislation against families owning a pool (when, unlike guns that are believed to save millions of lives every year, it has no real benefit other than status symbol). Like guns, cars are very useful, and the huge number of accidents, life long injuries, and deaths (and cars do get used as murder weapons as well as helping in commit murders such as in drive by shootings) don't change the fact that we love our cars. Psyche meds are known to cause suicidal and even homicidal tendencies in a few people but most people look to the people helped by psyche meds than those destroyed by them. For that matter, more people die of mistakes in hospitals than by guns (and that's not counting getting hellish diseases like MRSA while hospitalized) but people still go to hospitals and see doctors. And then there's THE deadliest force in human history: government (which would ban guns). In the 20th century, neither man made or natural disaster killed as many people as governments and that's NOT including wars (see Dirty Little Secrets of the Twentieth Century). Nevertheless, most people aren't anarchists because of this.

And it may seem like there are constant gun tragedies out here, but with a few notable exceptions (most of them with heavy gun control in place) most communities are pretty safe and peaceful, as explained here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/fr...359513.stm

A British man I met in Colorado recently told me he used to live in Kent but he moved to the American state of New Jersey and will not go home because it is, as he put it, "a gentler environment for bringing the kids up."

This is New Jersey. Home of the Sopranos.

Brits arriving in New York, hoping to avoid being slaughtered on day one of their shopping mission to Manhattan are, by day two, beginning to wonder what all the fuss was about. By day three they have had had the scales lifted from their eyes.

I have met incredulous British tourists who have been shocked to the core by the peacefulness of the place, the lack of the violent undercurrent so ubiquitous in British cities, even British market towns

Wait till you get to London Texas, or Glasgow Montana, or Oxford Mississippi or Virgin Utah, for that matter, where every household is required by local ordinance to possess a gun.

Folks will have guns in all of these places and if you break into their homes they will probably kill you.

They will occasionally kill each other in anger or by mistake, but you never feel as unsafe as you can feel in south London.

It is a paradox. Along with the guns there is a tranquillity and civility about American life of which most British people can only dream

As for why people like their guns and why they're seen as useful despite the downside, there are many reasons. And the differences are such that sometimes gun owners can be against some guns and not others (for example, I've met hunters who love their long guns but are against handguns for protection while I've also met a few who are all for their self-defense guns but want to ban hunting and the guns specifically tailored for that). If you're really interested I'll try explaining the various interests (and obsessions) with guns.

[pellaz]

why we like our guns?:
well the cat is out of the bag, large segments of Americans own guns. In fact its the only forum of technology they may have. if the government says you cant have guns its like the government is taking something away.

I have never found a good use for a gun. I own a nice expensive one. No one has broken in to my house and i lived in a rural area like 30 years. but out of a population of a million you can find one or two people that its happened to. That is why i have insurance.

opinions here reflect my personal thoughts and in no way apply to the common good. cheersmile:

[ardus]

Why am I not surprised this turned into a gun debate?

I will take several deep breaths, and try to explain my position.

First let me say I don't know all the facts about the Treyvon Martin case, it happened while I was in Drill Sergeant School and I was somewhat cut off there. As I understand it, and if I have my facts wrong please correct me. The perpetrator, Zimmerman, was a member of a neighborhood watch group, who was walking around doing the neighborhood watch thing, and also happened to be licensed to carry concealed, and was carrying that day. He saw the victim, Martin, leaving the area from some incident that he may or may not have been involved in and felt he was suspicious. At this point he called the police on his cell, and was told to stay away, but decided to follow. At some point Martin confronted him as to why he, Zimmerman, was following him. There were words exchanged and perhaps some minor physical contact but that's unknown, and Zimmerman deciding he felt his life was threatened decide to respond with deadly force.

I'm not going to touch the racial issue with a ten foot pole because there is winning that argument.

As far as the issue of Floridas gun laws. I personally, don't think that it applies here, because from what I know, Zimmerman pursued Martin, thus he pushed an incident where none really existed. Maybe he felt he was doing the right thing, but the purpose of the stand your ground laws, as they are termed, is protecting yourself and the people close to you, not trying to make yourself something you are not. We have Police who are trained to prevent crimes and pursue criminals. If you are preventing a crime as a citizen that is one thing, but it is not your job as a citizen to pursue criminals. We don't need the Wild Wild West. That may have been fine in 1870, but it doesn't work in 2012. You protect yourself, you protect your own, but you keep your nose out of things that don't concern you.

If anyone want's my opinion on gun control I've made several post to that effect, or I would be happy to restate it but I don't feel like that is the purpose of this thread so I won't put it in here without being asked to.

"Breathes Deeply"

Wow I didn't even get angry. It's an emotional issue for some of us.
Richard

[Pix]

Definitely appears that what I heard about the system being blatantly racist is true:

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-24/justi...PM:JUSTICE

She didn't even shoot him, she fired a warning shot and he had a record of violence against her and he initially admitted he was going to kill her. Still, she's looking at decades in prison.

In contrast a white guy managed to chase down a Latino who stole his stereo a couple of blocks away, IIRC (I heard it on NPR) and stab him to death and he was cleared of all wrong doing because of Stand Your Ground.

As someone who initially supported SYG I now say repeal it. Florida doesn't deserve it because it's not used to protect innocents from thugs but a weapon for whites to use against the darkies. And for that matter get rid of its state government, it's an utter disgrace (and not only for this, but for plenty of other reasons as well).