Hey everyone, I just woke up so I'm a little groggy, hope I'm understandable.
Is anyone else here a big fan of both The L Word and Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
I'm currently watching Buffy with the kids (who don't watch TLW) and The L Word with my partner (who doesn't watch BtVS) and...well since I just don't feel articulate yet I'll just say I'd like to talk to someone who's a fan of both shows as I don't know anyone else in real life or even on the net (at least not anymore) that is.
I was all about Buffy the Vampire Slayer in highschool, it's one of those shows that just doesn't really age. I happened across One More time with Felling on tv a few weeks ago and had to watch it.
Ok, where here's a question that you don't have to know either show to maybe have an answer for me...
I know that jilted brides (and occasionally grooms, like in that Sabrina ep that I think finished the series) are a common trope, but I'm wondering about a specific formula that I've only seen twice now. I'll describe them both and ask my question:
BtVS features Xander & Anya which starts with Anya being aloof yet strongly attracted to Xander, then jealous & possessive, sexually experimental & uninhibited and sometimes too blunt when talking in front of strangers, freaks out over little things, is exiled from her demon family and held in contempt for her human ways (she was originally a human who became a demon about a thousand years ago and then was forced to become a human again), she balked at accepting a marriage proposal and then accepted it after a traumatic experience they survived together (with the other characters), and then when she goes to the altar her demon family is back and suddenly oh so supportive, traditions are enforced (not entirely successfully), and mixing with the humans (and with alcohol flowing free) get into all kinds of drama as they mix, including a demon saying children of demonic origins should be raised with their culture. And then a demon or whatever (I forget as it's been a couple of years since I last saw it and I kinda tuned it out as best I could) claims to be Xander from the future who suddenly shows up and causes Xander to leave Anya and spare her (and the children) what he believes he'll turn into which causes fights and heartbroken Anya is accepted back into her demonic family.
The L Word is very different in many ways yet this storyline is also present in how Carmen is aloof yet strongly attracted to the boi-ish Shane, then jealous & possessive, is sometimes too blunt when talking about sexual matters in front of others and is sexually experimental and uninhibited, freaks out over little things (like the huge fight she had with Shane because of what Shane did in her dream), is exiled from her traditional Mexican American family for being a lesbian, balked at accepting a marriage proposal (for similar reasons as Anya, though can't say they're identical) but after a traumatic event she says yes, and when she goes to the altar she's surprised by her family who is now very supportive and loving, and traditions are enforced (not entirely successfully). Drugs and alcohol are present (TLW is more R-rated) and the drama unfolds as big city lesbians mix with Carmen's traditional family, and there's also huge drama between a straight man and the lesbian whom he took her bisexual lover from and now wanting to raise the lesbian's biracial child which gets the black lesbian mother (and her sister) concerned and defensive over the child being raised in a very white family where people (as has happened) assume the biracial (and obviously part black) little girl is adopted. And then Shane's father (who had been missing since he abandoned Shane when she was a little girl) unexpectedly enters her life again and shows up at the wedding where he ends up convincing Shane that he's scum and that Shane as his daughter is also scum because she's inherited too much of his genes (and it's true that both are womanizers and drug abusers, though she'd tried to change for Carmen) and leaves Carmen in a very similar way as Xander did Anya and for pretty much the same reason, which causes fights and with the jilted and heartbroken bride being accepted back into her family that had previously exiled her. (Shane follows up doing about the same thing Xander did as well though it quickly diverges from that point.)
I should point out that Shane is held in much higher regard and considered infinitely cooler than Xander, a main character rather than a sidekick, though a few have expressed disgust at her constant casual sex and all too frequent drug abuse (in which case those haters should LOVE Xander...).
I'm wondering, did BtVS influence TLW, at least eps like this (as BtVS was popular with lesbians and lesbians have written nearly all the eps of TLW, and for that matter one of the actresses was a huge Buffy fan who also had a minor role in the Buffy spin off Angel as Justine Cooper, for whatever that's worth). Or is it instead that this is a common formula (not just the leaving the altar, but all those details I included). I've seen and read plenty of stories of jilted brides (and grooms) but I've only known these 2 to be so parallel (and given how different the shows are I'm surprised it managed to be so alike). Are there any other stories (including that of jilted grooms) which are like the above 2?
Thinking about this as I write this I also realize that season 3 TLW (which is when the above happens) and season 6 of BtVS are both very depressing with multiple eps that are a kick in the gut (and both feature a popular character dying which outraged several of their respective fans), though both have just enough fun and really good eps to still be worth adding to the dvd collection (and when you're in the mood for angst you can pretty much just pop an episode in randomly and get your fix). Season 3 TLW also featured a vampire (not real exactly...) and magic (more implied than stated outright and also features themes of addiction, with drug abuse on the side, and then there are the psychic tarot readings that turn out to speak truth), though that would be more trouble to explain than I feel like doing at the moment, though it's another hint that maybe s6 Buffy inspired the writing in this season.
I haven't seen The L Word, though I have heard good things.
I....friggin'....LOVE Buffy :biggrin: I own all the seasons, the movie and have been collecting the graphic novels which continue the show's story arc.
I suppose my favorite Buffy episode is from season 6 called "Once More With Feeling"
I even downloaded that episode's soundtrack to my I-Pod :biggrin:
"Hush" is another one of my favorite episodes, as well as "The Body"
I don't worship Whedon as some do but I do admire his style in some ways, especially shows where he gets weird like Hush (no one can speak or scream), OMWF (everyone singing), and also the Angel ep with puppets and Angel turns into a puppet...and IMO he makes these work...even the absurd puppet ep WORKED (at least if you accept the premise of the show which you presumably do if you're in the habit of watching it). That is just so freaking brilliant, and I love how he challenges himself like that (for example, he did Hush because he kept being told that his shows were popular for the dialog so he decided to make a show in which there was almost no dialog, and nice irony at the end). And the ep The Body shows he's more than a screenwriter, he's an artist.
I won't go into what I see as his weak points (at least not in this post) but I will address one weak point he confessed that I thought actually worked (and was surprised it was a mistake). It had to do with the uber-vamps in the last (televised) season where the first one called was so epic a fighter but then the army of uber vamps were (relatively) easily defeated by inexperienced Slayers (at least one on one). That made sense to me because I figured that if the First was going to send someone she'd send a champion (that is, the uber-vamp version of the Slayer, or perhaps the uber vamp version of Caleb, the human who gained super strength by the First being able to bond with him and "charge" him up), not a common grunt. That is, the first uber-vamp that Buffy had hell fighting was "special forces" that scout and enter behind enemy lines while the army at the end was composed of "privates" so that it just made sense to me and was surprised that JW considered it a plot hole.
As I found a rare Shane/Sharmen-centric scene that wasn't R-rated and shows what I meant about Carmen freaking out over a dream she had I thought I'd share it just for fun:
and here (after giving Shane all kinds of grief over it) she tells Shane the rest of her dream:
The L Word is hilarious, IMO, though it can be so heartbreakingly sad at times, too.
Maybe I'll share some Buffy vids later, too. mile:
Pix, I love the fact I'm not the only one who loves The L Word, because that movie is so awesome. I even have it right next to Noah's Arc and My Week with Marilyn Monroe :redface: .
Is it weird for a gay guy to like a movie like this? With all the sex scenes lol, I was screaming the whole time :tongue: .
I get what you mean about the whole Carmen/Shane thing, but for why they did it I can't say, but I commend Shane for putting up with it for as long as she did
None of my friends[who are majoritively lesbians] act like these girls[they're really girly], although two of them are kind of similar to Shane in a way, so watching the movie was like opening my eyes to a whole new world of lesbianism :eek:
I've never seen girls, let alone lesbians talk about sex like the way they did and I went back to my friends and was like, "So that's what you gals talk about when I'm not here!" :biggrin:.
I liked how the "L" meant different things; I.e - Lesbian/Love/Laugh/Life/ , very interesting mile: .
The L Word & Buffy
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Virgo
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