I think you guys have covered all the angles...
My partner and I are the bearish types, but not especially masculine apart from physically; no six packs or smooth abs here. That's not out of choice, it's more just the way we're built. I've gotta admit I did feel a bit isolated by the mainstream gay scene, if anything for the elitism and sheer lack of variety; sometimes, at least on Newcastle's bar scene, it seemed like if you were gay you had to like cheesy pop music, develop a nasty attitude, and slave away at getting a chiselled body. All I knew was I just liked guys. I was chubby and liked weird music, and thought my boyfriend was big and awesome just the way he was. Apparently that makes us bears, and I don't embrace any ideas of hyper-masculinity because really it would be an oxymoron.
We've never encountered any prejudice for it, although you will get the occasional shallow club guys who look at you like "oh my goooood" and turn their noses up, which I think, if anything, harms the scene more. It sure puts me off knowing I'm getting critiqued every time I walk in somewhere where I should be able to relax and feel welcome.
Bear culture was something that found me and felt right for me, average guys who like cock and beer and bad food, maybe some videogames and sports. There's nothing wrong or right about either to me.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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I don't think the bear movement is sending any sort of message.
I think its quite wonderful actually to showcase that there are as many different types of gay men as there are straight ones. Some of us are more feminine than others, some more masculine and some of us stand right in the middle. Its a great way to break down stereotypes as far as I'm concerned.
But lets play Devil's Advocate and say they do represent some sort of movement to place masculinity at the forefront of gay matters.....who cares in the end? If it doesn't affect you personally, why concern yourself over it? They are still fighting for acceptance for all of us so again, who cares if they like to drink beer and watch sports while scratching themselves or whatever it is masculine men do? We all want the same thing, to live our lives as we see fit yes?  mile:
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I must agree.
I don't believe bears hurt the movement. They fight for acceptance as much as everyone else. As a matter of fact, they may be able to bridge the gap between diversities even faster.
The homophobic straight guy who idealizes the way a man should look or act may see bears as closely related to themselves and finding out their orientation would be the caveat to them thinking it's ok. Not sure if that makes sense.
Anywho, The end goal is the same and therefore it can not hinder.
It seems we might be judging and not want to be judged, eh?
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Nope. I think when more subcultures are known to exsist it shows people that are all not the same in the gay community so they take their stereotypes and shove 'em. :K I mean...yeah.
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Bear sub culture in its self so so diverse and different from person to person.
If your saying that the Bear Subculture is sending out the wrong messages, have you ever thought that we may think Circut Queens are sending out the wrong message?
I'd suggest to a few people to watch BearCity it's an awesome movie and will sort of outline a few things for those who don't know about the Bear Subculture.
I've seen some of the most muscled up bears and to hear the voice and the way they talk is just hilarious, really feminine and so on.
Without diversity in any cultures/sub cultures it would just get so fucking boring all the time, would it not?
Now this next section is not my own writing but I do agree with it completely this has been copied from another forum.
Hopully it outlines a lot of things for you guys/gals.
Little bit of history
Originating in the 80's, the bear community began with guys who felt that mainstream gay culture was unwelcoming to men who did not fit a particular bodily norm (thin, hairless, gym toned and young). These guys began by forming small groups. The first bear bar (Lone Star Saloon) opened in 1989 in the leather district San Francisco. Unlike other bars in the area the patrons of this bar weren’t into fashion leather, just biker leathers and was the unofficial home of the Rainbow Motorcycle Club. At this stage, size had nothing to do with being a bear – the guys weren’t gym junkies nor were they overweight. They were just regular guys with the common denominator being facial hair and a friendly masculine attitude. In the early 90’s the members of “Girth & Mirth (a n organization for large gay men) began to merge into the bear community as did groups of very muscular men. As it stands today, the bear community is made up of and welcomes men of all shapes and sizes – thin, fat, muscular, and your average Joe.
Now to address some of the myths circulating these boards about the bear community
All bears are fat, hairy men with beards who just want to have sex with other fat hairy men with beards
Wrong. As stated earlier the bear community is made up of and welcomes folks not only all shapes and sizes, but also all different ages, sexualities and physical/sexual/romantic attractions. These include
Bears - Hairy men with a stocky or heavyset build, usually with facial hair.
Chubs - Heavy set gay men who don’t necessarily self- identify as bears. Can be hairy or hairless, and with or without facial hair
Otters - Men who are hairy, but not large or stocky. Typically thinner, swimmer's build, or with lean muscle. Can be with or without facial hair
Muscle bears - Muscular versions of bears. Can be hairy or hairless, and with or without facial hair
Wolves - Lean, masculine gay men attracted to bears and involved in the bear scene. Can be hairy or hairless , and with or without facial hair.
Trappers - Men of smaller stature attracted to bears. Can be hairy or hairless , age and with or without facial hair.
Cubs - Younger (or younger looking) versions of a bear,
Polar bears – Older bears with silver or white hair.
Admirers – Men who are sexually or romantically attracted to bears
Chasers - Men who are attracted to overweight men.
Daddy bears - Older bears, looking for a daddy/son relationship with younger men.
Grizzly Adams - Men who are hairy and attracted to bears; but do not self-identify as a bear.
Gummy Bears - Bears who date or are exclusively attracted to other bears. As in, ‘They stick together like gummy bears.’
Leatherbears - Bears with a leather fetish.
Goldilocks - Females, often heterosexual, who are often in the company of bears (a bear's fag hag).
Gobi Bear - Heterosexual males who are bear friendly.
This diversity is highlighted in a quote from SF Brawny Bear of The Complete Bear website who states
“Very often we are asked, “What is a bear?” The danger here is whatever we define, somehow excludes those that don’t match that description – which never was the intent. The strongest attribute of the bear community is inclusion - freedom to be who you are, to look how you look, and acceptance from your bear brothers.”
The Bear Community is exclusive.
It can be, but not as much as is being made out here. The whole bear thing was originally based around the physical power of the grizzly bear and the homoerotic masculine image of the Canadian lumberjack. This appreciation of power and masculinity still runs through the veins of the Bear Community and because of this, effeminate, flamboyant men may not be made welcome within the bear community or at bear events. Apart from that Mama knows no reason why you would be not welcomed by the Bears if you had a legitimate reason for wanting to be there.
Bears are a drain on our health system
This is by far the most ignorant argument against bears raised so far as it is based on the very incorrect assumption that all bears are overweight - which for the umpteenth time I will state is untrue. Not all bears are overweight so how are bears as a group a drain on our health system. Yes there is a proportion of the bear community who are overweight and they may use our health system more that others but that is because they are overweight – not because they are bears.
On a side note here, Mama despises this idea of overweight folks being a drain on our health system as it brings up the vile notion of the deserving and undeserving ill. For those of you who advocate denying healthcare or penalizing folks whose illness is through lifestyle choices, you may want to consider the consequences of what you’re asking for. If you want a system where you can say to people that “Your diabetes was caused by your own actions so why should I have to pay for it”, then the next step will be folks saying “I know your Cystic fibrosis wasn’t caused by your own doing but it certainly wasn’t caused by my doing either so why should I pay for it”
The Bear Community is unwelcoming and Unfriendly
Mama is not going to waste time disputing other posters anecdotes of being made unwelcome by bears – that’s their reality and they are entitled to it. She will however relate to you a story where she saw firsthand how welcoming the bears can be.
When all this bear bashing began a few weeks ago Mama decided to try a little experiment and went o the “Den Night” of Vicbears Melb. Now Den Night is the monthly meeting of the VicBears social group and as you would expect was full of some of the major players within Melbs bear scene. Mama was incognito on the night in boy drag with a full beard and no girdle so she blended in fine. The two people who accompanied her however stood out like dogs balls. Joe (Mamas hubby) 6ft tall, 27 but looks 20, face that couldn’t grow a beard if he wanted to and weighing around 65 kg dripping wet. Steven, well dressed, no beard, thick styled hair, one of Melbs premier show girls most nights average height and weight. Well within minutes of sitting down one of the Vicbears came over, welcomed us saying it was nice to see some new faces in the place, and began chatting. Later on, another guy came giving away raffle tickets and the way he decided how many you got was to measure your inner leg – both Joe and Steven were included in this bit of fun. To cut this tale short - .the night was fun and at no time were any of us made to feel unwelcome.
Mama is not going to say that all bears are friendly and welcoming souls because just like in any other group there are going to be dickheads. The thing is they are not dickheads because they are bears, they were just dickheads to begin with. Every group has its bad seeds and to judge an entire group on the actions of a few members is ridiculous.
Bears think that any gay male who fits the stereotypical description of a bear, should also identify as a bear.
This is not true. Firstly, bears for the most part only socialize at bear bars/events with other guys who identify as bears. They don’t go out to mainstream gay venues and therefore don’t have the opportunity force the bear ideology on anyone even if they wanted too. Secondly, if a guy who happens to look like a bear visits a bear bar, then isn’t it understandable that the bears inside may think he identifies as a bear? Lastly, you put a guy with a facial hair or a belly in a mainstream gay club and Mama would put money on a lot of folks thinking they were bears. Its just what gayers do. Just the same as thy label any guy that chooses to go out in female clothing as a drag queen.
Finally
Bears are not to be feared or hated. It might not be your scene and that is fine but don’t hate them just because of that. They do a lot of work for charities and have a sense of community that the mainstream gay community lost years ago. There's enough hate and negativity towards our gay community from outsiders without us turning on each other for no real reason
For the record Mama does have the stereotypical physical appearance of a bear but, does not now nor has she ever identified as a bear. She does however enjoy their company on occasion and has many friends who are fully amerced within the bear community
She will leave you now with the trailer to Bear City, which shows gives a pretty good indication of all the shapes and sizes that frequent the bear world - and yes there is big overweight men featured so just get over it. No ones asking you too bed them - just accept them
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QueenOdi Wrote:All gay guys have sex with guys... so what's the big deal? So a guy may be queeny sometimes, so what? He's still anatomically a guy... "Manly men" act like somehow, if you're feminine, you spontaneously grow a vagina and breasts...
It just doesn't make logical sense.
In the end, they can have their little boys club, and even say; "We only accept xyz" , but the minute they start saying "Fem guys are not real men, so they're not allowed" or something similar, then that's where I draw a line.: .
I think the problem with what your saying there is 90% of the gay men I choose to associate with see themselfs as "Bears/Otters" and out of this 90% I'd say only 5% would be willing to sleep with a Femboy.
The reason behind it is that they don't want someone who acts,talks and walks extremely Fem.
Which is understand able due to them wanting and I quote in there words "real men" .
Yes anatomically you are still men, but it's how they behave that puts a lot of people off.
But in saying what I just have said there is someone for someone so why get your panties in a knot, just because someone doesn't like means fuck all, move on because no one should have to change how they behave/look just to fit in.
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What sucks is that I like bear guys and they don't like me back because I'm not one. =\ Well, not yet, maybe I'll develop more hair as I age?
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the bear movement
