need for natioal health care

[pellaz]

there is a need for a semi functional national health care system in the US.

-NOT able to pay? Go to the local county or city hospital. No one else goes there and no one sees them. Americans think these services dont cost anything. Why would we need mandatory health care, well you are paying exorbitant un regulated prices for ineffective care these peeps receive.
-the slow degrade of life expectancy and increase in preventable child diseases; i really thought this might be happening. Ever so slow to not be detected. the final erasure of the middle classes.
-the medical special interests will make if impossible to change.


http://www.towleroad.com/2012/09/life-ex...icans.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/lif...20921&_r=1

[ChadCoxRox]

The insurance companies have grown accustomed to passing the rising cost of MAINTAINING their profit shares to their customers while MANY refuse to pay the premiums. The US does not need universal healthcare but requirement that the cost be shared accross the board according to ability to pay. There are COUNTLESS millions of healthcare dollars NOT being spent by millions of workers pocketing their cash and betting they won't need to use the healthcare system. It's simply crooked from every freakin' angle!!

[Blue]

Yes, there does need to be more affordable option for US healthcare but, not any form of socialized health care that forces people who choose, for whatever reasons, never to go to a doctor their entire lives, to pay for something they have no use of having.

No penalty for not having health insurance.
No mandatory paycheck deductions for it.
No raising taxes for it.
No reducing what doctors get paid.
No mandatory insurance PERIOD.

Now find a solution that gives heath care to everyone that chooses it without doing any of those things and still lets someone get quality healthcare when they can't even afford a roof over their head and, you might have something that will work and not piss off the majority of Americans.

[pellaz]

... The US does not need universal healthcare ...

All of the developed nations have health care. We need to look at what is working or not for other countries. What ever we do we wont be creating anything new.

granted government programs are spastic but:
-did you ever submit a major health claim to your insurance company? Say like a broken leg? Not a lot of fun, the paperwork goes on for months and there are hidden costs. Better not crash your car while on vacation. This is no better than dealing with a government agency.
-what happens if you have a pre existing condition the insurance company dosnt like, your gone.
-costs are out of control, its not like health care professionals are under paid.
-It takes years for medical technology to trickle down and not have a Thalidomide scandal

[pellaz]

... No mandatory insurance PERIOD ...

Americans seem to think some things are god given. After all we are a nation under god. If someone goes to a hospital and does not have insurance YOU pay for their care. The care they receive is low grade at a high un regulated cost.

YOU are forced to have auto insurance
YOU are forced to have home owners
YOU are forced to have business insurance
why?
because no one wants to clean up YOUR mess.

governments provide services to the general public
-national security, big cost here, we start wars in far away countries (war on terror)
-we have public education (if your different expect a good bashing)
-we have public infrastructure, (have you paid for driving on a commercial maintained highway, it was expensive right like a dollar or two a mile to drive on)
-we have a legal system (incarcerate the most citizens of any democracy)

health insurance is not really insurance:
if you are gay you should pay higher premiums
the ladies should pay more too, pregnancy is a preventable disease (the war on women is real)

[Blue]

YOU are forced to have auto insurance
YOU are forced to have home owners

Wrong. The law says we have to have liability only auto insurance but, we can choose not to pay it and risk loosing out licence and, in some states we can be self insured via a sizable bank account.

We are not required to have home owners or renter's insurance. many do but, there are homes that no insurance company will insure.

There is no forced penalty for not having either, unless you get caught driving without insurance and, no penalty other than your own loss if you don't have home owner's insurance.

In either case, if you choose not to have the insurance, you do not pay anything except if there is a problem. As well as socialized medicine works for some countries it won't work here. Americans in general do not want to pay for something they choose not to have.

[pellaz]

you are blind sided by your belief system:

Wrong. The law says we have to have liability only auto insurance but, we can choose not to pay... or ... be self insured via a sizable bank account.

its the law... you can ride that horse drawn buggy on private land wear a flannel shirt too. Unless you own Prada.

... We are not required to have home owners or renter's insurance ... there are homes that no insurance company will insure ...

Wonder what those homes look like that can not get insurance or un insurable? Maybe someone can afford to own these homes w/o homeowners insurance you cant get that mortgage, you rent right?

In either case, if you choose not to have the insurance, you do not pay anything except if there is a problem.

if you are driving home from a bar and cause a 50 car accident you will not be able to pay for this. Even if it is not your fault chances good you will not be able to pay 100% for the damages and it all wind up in court and you pay 30% of damages. If you break your leg likely you will not be able to pay for it. SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO PAY TO CLEAN UP YOUR MESS. What if you hit someone and put them in a hospital for 2 weeks, be they will have lots of fun think of YOU.

As well as socialized medicine works for some countries it won't work here.

the rest of the world is a virtual game and YOU are the only real live player.

Americans in general do not want to pay for something they choose not to have.

because they are used to someone else CLEANING UP AFTER THEM.

[Blue]

Actually, in a lot of places you can drive a horse drawn vehicle on public roads.

House that no one will insure look just like any other house. They might be in a flood plane, or as with mine located too far form any fire or police stations to be insured - yep it seems if the closest police or fire is more than 40 miles away, you can't have insurance around here.

My point is, that isn't how most people thing, they don't care what someone else will have to pay, they don't care what they might have to pay tomorrow IF something happens. They care about getting and keeping all they can for themselves TODAY - everyone else be damned.

Socialized medicine, in the minds of many is the same as welfare, which most that don't receive it hate - it's the money of the hard working people going to pay the lazy butts that won't go get a job.

I know that's closed minded and not always the case - some people do try and just can't make ends meet, or they are disabled, or there simply aren't jobs but, you are not going to change human nature and, that's what making those who would never use and don't want it pay for something anyway would require.

Yes I hate Obamacare. I pay my own medical bills, which comes to a heck of a lot less than Obamacare would cost me.

My ex did not go to doctors at all except to get the physical required by his job. He believed that if Goddess allowed a disease or injury to happen to him, Goddess also provided the proper remedy and means to treat it in nature. Is it right to make him pay for health insurance when he would never use it because going to a doctor or hospital is wrong, useless and foolish to him?

No we aren't the only players but, you can't expect Americans in general to be anything but the selfish, capitalistic, money and power grubbing prigs most are. It simply won't happen.

[pellaz]

... if Goddess allowed a disease or injury to happen to him, Goddess also provided the proper remedy and means to treat it in nature. Is it right to make him pay for health insurance when he would never use it because going to a doctor or hospital is wrong, useless and foolish to him?

so it IS a belief system, good luck with that.

[Blue]

Many people have belief systems that dictate the not utilize mainstream medicine. I know other nations do it, but my born and bred American mentality screams "NO FAIR" at making them pay for something they will never use.

In my mind, that's the same as forcing everyone to buy cabbage, pork and beer every week, even if they hate it, are allergic to it, happen to not eat unclean meats (or meat at all), and can't or don't drink alcohol.

Yes there needs to be some kind of reform to allow those that cannot currently afford health care to get proper care IF they desire, but forcing the cost on everyone is not the answer.