I was reading The Dream of the Red Chamber, and I'm up to a part where they recount a story of how two men fought over a slave girl that they fell in love with.
One of the men, Feng, was previously gay until he met the slave girl. In the Qing Dynasty homosexuality must have been prevalent and accepted, I guess; and I know in Chinese history male homosexuality is well recorded and seems to have been accepted.
In Japan, there is the concept of Bishounen, which means a man with beauty that transcends sexuality and gender.
In Ancient Greece, they didn't have the concept that we have of sexual orientation, only the concept of passive and active roles in sex. However being the passive role was a sign of femininity and was regarded as shameful. Eventually, Rome's rule discouraged it, because Rome had a strong emphasis on patriarchy and masculinity.
So where did our concept of sexual orientation/sexuality come from, how did it evolve do you think? Now it seems prevalent throughout the world, probably due to colonisation and the more recent Westernisation of the world.
How different are Western perceptions of homosexuality to that of the Qing Dynasty, Rome, or even modern Japan?
Okay i know it's not really a debate o_o but it's close enough.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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Awww, Lilitu... why d'ya have tro go and open a bloody big intellectual can of worms like that!
You and I both know that some folk turn purple when they hear that Eve was Adam's SECOND wife and that he got rid simply because she wanted to go on top... or did she want the car keys or her own seperate bank account, Oh I dunno.
It just seems to me that no matter what civilization, modern or ancient, some of us are naturally fantastic and therefore need to spend on average 30 minutes longer in the bathroom. We can't all go out and scrape our selves with an old piece of hoof - that's what I tell the hets!
Anyway, I'll leave you with the best advice I can give anyone... Never tickle a grinning chimp!
Vigilias = Mad as  crap!
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Oh my god that advice was cryptic o.o I went and confused myself all the way to Bahrain.
Lol also just clarifying (excuse to share this picture) in case anyone doesn't know the story behind Lilith here's what happened: Adam went "oh bitch getcho ass under me" and Lilith said "NO U" and adam got all pissed so lilith did this: ![[Image: tumblr_m64q3k_Ba8_F1rvxxqpo1_500.jpg]](http://s10.postimage.org/mq2wl5oqh/tumblr_m64q3k_Ba8_F1rvxxqpo1_500.jpg)
And then ribs ribs ribs yay. Then Eve.
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Hello,
Homosexuality has been around since the word go really in all aspects of life the only part we cannot confirm is that of dinosaurs as lets face it they are exitinct.... I find that the greeks had the right idea with the whole concept of life and the romans were not entirely innocent in the whole game because they could be just as dirty as the rest of life and that included on the battle field... l find that within life if people worked on accepting one another like animals do then it would be better rather than say whats right and whats wrong... I would say some people such as queen victoria are what i like to call a disgrace because making it illegal to be gay and not for a lesbian is like the BNP making it illegal to be black in a country they like to regard as white..
With japan and china their cultures seem a lot more peaceful than that of our society as they are more family orientated by what i seem to be seeing in life through people i know... I find that if we lived this walk of life it could be a lot easier but to be honest we have the attitude "its a dog eat dog kind of world so sod the rest of em lets fend for ourselves" and this is the attitude of those of all walks of life.... Maybe one day people who are fearful will learn being gay/lesbian/bi sexual/transgendered is not a disease, it is not a crime and it is not un natural... It is just simply nature controlling the population as if nature didnt do this would we be here today or would we have simply had disease and famine hit our ancestors through over population hundereds of years ago?
Kindest regards
Zeon x
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I haven't read it but i've been meaning to get around to it.
There is a book called sodomy and the pirate tradition and it takes a fairly deep look at some of these issues.
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Sexuality isn't a concept, it is nature and has been around for a long time before man, hence a loooong time before man thought about sexuality.
The concept is the thoughts that surround sexuality.
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zeon Wrote:I would say some people such as queen victoria are what i like to call a disgrace because making it illegal to be gay and not for a lesbian is like the BNP making it illegal to be black in a country they like to regard as white
That lesbian thing is apocryphal, besides, Victoria never had the ability to write legislation. Sodomy was punishable by death in the UK since the 16th century, and the Victorians actually stopped the death penalty for gays. The Labouchere Amendment made it possible to prosecute gay men without having to prove that buggery had occurred, and it carried less time in prison. Lesbians were prosecuted under different legislation, mostly they would only be targeted if they were cross-dressers. It was partly a moral double standard, and partly due to popular misconceptions about tribadism. Lesbians were often assumed to be hermaphrodites or celibate, so often there wasn't a perception that something needed to be regulated.
I will disagree with dfiant, in that sexuality is a cultural construct. People with same-sex attractions have always existed. However, sexuality is the way culture conceives of those sexual relationships.
Anyway, I'd also caution against making generalizations about historical attitudes towards sexuality. Taking the Romans as an example, the Stoics (who were the most dominant faction of the elite) tended to frown quite a bit on homosexual activity, and bottoming was illegal for citizens. However, more libertine members of Roman society, like Ovid and Martial, had different opinions. Although, we might note that Ovid and Martial lived on the margins of the empire and were not popular with the elite. I doubt any society has ever had a single opinion about sexuality, there are always competing opinions at work, and you never have to dig very deep to find negative views about homosexuality.
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Is it true that Sparta was very accepting of homosexuality? And if so, was it the good kind or vicious (that is like prison rape as I believe women were few to nonexistent and as just another means to establish dominance and/or brutally initiate boys into men)?
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The Greeks at least had ethics, the Romans would mount anything carbon-based!
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This business about Queen Victoria making Homosexuality illegal and refusing to enact legislation against lesbians on the ground that it would simply educate women about it is, I'm afraid a myth.
It is now, as it was in Victoria's reign, incumbent upon the sovereign to give the Royal Consent to any legislation his or her government places before him/her.
Victoria would have had no authority to personally enact or to refuse to enact the legislation laid before her by the Prime Minister. The government is the elected body after all. The Royal Assent has not been withheld since Queen Ann in 1708, due to a bun fight over a Militia in Scotland. Her ministers advised her that the Militia would be disloyal.
Before then, Charles Stewart dismissed parliament and controlled the country personally for 11 years from 1629. Parliament had attempted to enact legislation to restrict the Kings arbitrary exercise of power and Charlie boy was having non of it! The legally questionable actions of Charles Stewart during this period lead to a civil war and his execution. England became a republic for 11 years from 1649.
It was Henry Tudor (Henry VIII) who enacted anti homosexuality laws around 1533 "An Acte for the punysshement of the vice of Buggerie" Offenders would forefeet not only their life but their possessions too.
I have read somewhere but can now not find any authority, that homosexuals were once punished by being burned at the stake. However, they were not thought worthy enough to be burned standing upright but were burned lying in amongst the kindling of the fire - hence the word Faggot used a derogatory name for a gay man. Maybe this was something to do with the Inquisition on mainland Europe – The buggers!
Anyway, have a good one and Happy New Year!
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