American NRA

[Marc]

genersis with all due respect my relatives have had to go over to Europe twice to save that continent from its own stupidity and megalomania, in both respective world wars over the last 100 years.

Europe is hardly in a position to lecture the planet on how to behave like civilized people.

Generally I won't be pulled into an arguement of this kind.

BUT

1. American participated in 2 world wars? Are you sure? A large number of Americans volunteered to fight for the commonwealth, but that is not the same thing. Officially America declared war for the last 8 months of the war (sound familiar)

2. America didn't rescue Europe in the 2nd war either. When it was coming to a conclusion, and after many years of hiding, America was looking weak, so the Jap's attacked you, FORCING America to take action.
Now, after having several years of hiding, America stock piled many millions of tonnes of munition INCASE it was dragged into war.

The United Kingdom had just 20 years earlier lost the lives of milllions of men in the Great War, we were then the ONLY COUNTRY to take on the might of the German's after the Reich invaded Poloand.
We were out numbered 7 to 1... We battled alone for the first 5 months, before our brothers from the Commonwealth joined us.

The war was at a turning point months before America crawled out of bed.

Now, if you would like to do a little research, you will see that every single successful American operation carried out by America, had been planned by UK, Australian, Canadian, and Russian Commanders.

Yes, America contributed, Yes America certainly helped to revive a battle weary Commonwealth, that had lost in total of:

Great war
Commonwealth: 16 million Dead, 20 million wounded.
USA 118,000 dead and injured (no seperate figures reliably exsist as thousands of Americans signed up to the British Army)

World War 2

Exact figures are hard to pin point, but over 60 million are estimated to have died.
On a country by country rating the figures are hard reading.

UK.. total Population.. 47.7 million. War dead 450,900 civilian deaths due to invasion 67,100

Australia. Total Pop. 6,9million, war dead 40,500 civilian deaths 700

USA total pop. 131,028,00, war dead 418,500, civilian deaths due to invasian (air raid) 1,700

So if you break down those numbers into percentages, and also compare them to the date's of active service, not only did the USA punch much below it's weight, it also lost a lot more solidiers in a much shorter time, which can only be related to poor training and a gun-ho attitude.

That's not to say the help of America wasn't appreciated, it probably ended the war a few months earlier... but without America would the war of ended any differently?
NO.

[pellaz]

i read the NRA reply this evening and thought it was lame and damaged.
this is sad because its one thing to be part of the problem but they refuse to be part of the solution.

it would seem a simple solution to prevent the mass murders; to screen out the unstable citizens from having gun permits. This will be difficult because for example the person who shot up the batman theater in Colorado was a respected grad student at a private university. These people are just socially awkward but nothing more; as in the Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza.

i am confused what to do?
the politicians will put another layer of government over the problem just like stupid Bush invented HomeLand Security.

-i do know it is super easy to get any type of gun permit in the US.
-The permits are handled by local agencies who are over whelmed.
-You can buy high grade weapons over the counter tho the good stuff is expensive.
-easy to collect far more none hunting grade weapons than what would be prudent for personal protection
-US society absolutely refuse and fail time and time again to step in set a higher standard for social skills and citizenship. for example all they can say for the gay population is "It Gets Better". Maybe a democratic government is to expensive to run.

[Zet]

Europe is hardly in a position to lecture the planet on how to behave like civilized people.

Well... Sweden has been a neutral country for perhaps 100 years. Even during both of the world wars did we manage to hold our neutrality, and we're a part of Europe, so... We've might have the record for the most battles between 2 countries in the world (Sweden vs. Denmark) but that was over 200 years ago... A lot of stuff has still happen during that period.

[Marc]

I think this says it all.

Cookoo!!!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/alex-jones-pier...ml#w8ufo0c

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Per capita, the UK has more rape and other sorts of violent crimes since you all decided to disarm.

Lets take a look at the most well armed nation on earth. Switzerland.

Every adult is conscripted into the 'military', they are trained and handed a gun and ammo by their government with orders to train that weapon on a regular basis at a firing range. Then the government hands them even more ammo to keep in case invaders should make the terrible mistake of actually attempting to make war with that nation.

Switzerland has the lowest crime rates of any other westernized nation yet has a higher gun to people ratio than the USA and other nations: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp

This kid who decided to steal some arms from his parent(s) didn't have legal claim to the weapons. Yeah sure, mom should have checked his dosage and locked up the guns, but the reality is that few legal gun owners actually use their guns for committing crimes. Guns are stolen, guns are imported via the black market and sold on the streets to 'thugs' who use those weapons to commit crimes.

IF the USA did ban the gun (ain't gonna happen) Those black market guns would still be pouring into the nation and still ending up in the hands of criminals. Just now you have the good citizens armed with I don't know, butcher knives instead of guns.

Bullets would still fly.

There was an under-reported news story http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1234400 A mother shoots a man 5 times who was up to no good. She defended herself and children.

Yes I agree, 5 bullets in the face is a bit excessive, but seriously if you are being attacked or in danger, 5 bullets to make certain isn't a terrible idea.

Now what would have happened if this woman wasn't able to own a gun? Do you think she would have been oh I don't know, raped and gutted before her babies before they were raped and gutted too?

This is the problem. The USA is a nation of Fear. We are fed fear on a constant daily dose, everywhere we turn our politicians and media streams fear almost directly into our veins. As a nation of fear we are way too keyed up and are going to overreact. THAT is not a problem of Guns. Look at the mellow Swiss, most are armed and they ain't going crazy with fear.

We are also a nation that has very bad policies when it comes to the division of wealth, thus creating an underclass which turns to criminal behaviors to basically survive. We make it worse because if you are not being pumped up with fear you are being told you are useless and worthless without the latest gadget, the best labels and all of this other consumer driven propaganda that is creating a sense of 'worthlessness' if you don't have X.

This creates a large group of people who are willing (and able) to reach out and take what they feel they must have because they are told that to be happy they have to have an Iphone, and Ipad, the latest bling, the brand name labeled shoes - whatever.

This is not a problem of guns. This is a problem of a sick society that has a highly skewed sense of what is and is not reality. People in the USA have long forgotten what it is to be content because we are told all the time we must be happy, and happiness is found in gadgets, trinkets, large McMansions, Xboxes, Plasma Screen Tvs - and if you don't have these you are not happy.

And we are a nation that has learned fear, mastered it to the point where no one talks to their neighbor, everyone fears everyone else. Constant fear on a population leads to insanity, which leads to kids being on prescription drugs and those usually tend to make things far worse for the kid who decides that its perfectly logically to take out a school with a firearm.

The problem is not the gun. Guns do not kill people. People kill people, and people drive other people insane.

[Marc]

Per capita, the UK has more rape and other sorts of violent crimes since you all decided to disarm.

Can you show me where you found this information, because judging by recent crime surveys posted through my door, that is not the case at all.

I also disagree with a lot of your comments, but it's the nature of the beast that we will never agree on topics like this, so have a monkey.

[Pix]

Alex Jones, while distressingly popular, isn't someone I'd choose to advocate anything unless I wanted to make whatever position he was defending to appear loony to anyone not in his choir. The only thing I can't tell about Alex Jones is if he's sincere or simply being over the top crazy to rake in the crazy dollar.

OTOH, I suppose it's not much worse than Wayne LaPierre and far more entertaining. The Nuge could give Alex Jones a run for his money in being as entertaining in a crazy way but then he's a musician (like a redneck turned rock star in his day) and everyone expects them to be wild, crazy, and eccentric anyway. There was a 13-year-old girl from Canada (and just as snarky & sarcastic as one) who, IMO, was far better at opposing gun control than any of the people I've listed so far (of course what self-respecting NRA member is gonna let a 13-year-old girl from Canada speak up for them?).

Hmm, wonder how it would've looked if they'd somehow managed to get Clint Eastwood to debate invisible people as well as the host?

Ah well, I saw the stats on violence in the UK after the gun bans, and things like rape did skyrocket after the gun bans, and crime in general also rose...granted, it wasn't much gun violence (though I think that rose as well) but people were still being grievously wounded, terrorized, and killed, especially the elderly, women, etc. That was many years ago when I checked so it may have changed now (it probably has since contrary to what the boomers like to believe they're more violent than the generations that came after them), but I tracked the figures back to Scotland Yard. Australia also saw a similar rise. And given how violent we Americans are the last thing I want to see a rise here similar to what the UK and Australia experienced as less (but not end to) mass shootings (even if not replaced by other forms of mass murder, such as school bombings) would be cold comfort, particularly given how many thousands of kids kill themselves over bullying every year (can you imagine the outcry if we lost thousands of kids every single year to mass murderers?).

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Can you show me where you found this information, because judging by recent crime surveys posted through my door, that is not the case at all.

I also disagree with a lot of your comments, but it's the nature of the beast that we will never agree on topics like this, so have a monkey.

I also suggest a google search to see what others have to say. Understand if a site is only giving numbers of shootings, they are not taking into account that the USA has 300 million people to the UKs 60 or so million.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/l...study.html

Only give me a monkey if you want it shot, I'm a gun toting American, we shoot anything that moves.

Seriously. Its a national pastime. In hunters alone we release the worlds forth largest army just to take out a few deer. We take hunting seriously.

[Blue]

Bowyn said it well, it isn't guns that kill people, it's people misusing guns that kill people.

The other thing is that, in this country at least, they can ban all the guns they want, make it criminal to even own one and, little would change. Criminals who use guns don't care if the law says they can't have one, they will have one anyway.

Yes I am a concealed carry permit holder - for that reason. All the karate, street fighting, knife skills ect... is not going to do one iota of good at 25, 50, 100, 200, even 400 yards away but, a gun will. As I ask those who think they can rely on hand to hand skills - can you run faster than 933.4 feet per second? (That's how fast the bullet out of the end of my .45 travels.)

Too many lump all guns into the same category. While SOME are not hunting or personal protection firearms and are strictly target and assault weapons, you can't lump a hunting rifle with any handgun or with an assault rifle - not the same animal. That's like saying a paring knife is the same as a switchblade - it isn't.

[princealbertofb]

While your argument that it's people who kill people is true, it doesn't necessarily mean that that proliferation of armament is a good thing for the nation at large. Or any nation, for that matter. What seems to be necessary is for arms to be less readily accessible, for one thing, and also for the whole "violence culture" to be curbed. So it is a matter of education above personal "comfort". But it will take a long time to resolve the sort of conflict that the whole issue generates.