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Do you believe in God? (2)
#1
(Sorry, this wasn´t supposed to be this long, but I had a lot of free time in the office today ._.)

Well, I´m going to get pedantic Talker (or at least that´s the word my brother uses every time I speak of the subject, which I don´t think I am) but yesterday I was too tired to expand the idea. Also, I guess is time to start the second part of this subject Here is a perspective:

Well, my affirmation of God requires that at the same time I reject its existence. It’s a little complicated to explain, perhaps, but God does not exist and because of this I cannot be an atheist and I live with faith (which is different from certitude, being faith an affirmation of my full and unanswerable doubt about God). I don´t think existence (in a “strong” way) conditions the effects, because of this I can’t deny reality to the effects of the imaginary or ideological (I´ll explain this below). We could say that justice does not exist, yet we try to make laws just. God could be an analogy of this non-existing justice. God does not exist, but behind its inexistence you have a whole story that seems to try to answer/dominate its [effective] inscrutable mystery (or lack of). At the end, the theodicy is trying to comprehend what people try to answer when speaking about God (or god)

We could say in this sense that democracy, to put an example, it’s a human construct, conformed and quasi-consolidated by persons, and in this way we can speak of God. Whatever is said about God is a human construct, and as such is as disposable as any other concept that does not stick to a “strong” reality. However, such conclusion seems to me quite incomplete, since democracy as an ideal or justice in itself is not a vagary, but a search to improve the condition of “something”, of our lives, a perfection of our society or our justice (apply the vocabulary as necessary). I don´t think we can speak of empty constructs that sprung from leisure. There’s something behind all this that motivates us, however I am not trying to say that this impulse is God or that it comes from God (or that justice comes from God). No, I´m just making an example with the concept of justice and how we are motivated to make justice, an inexistent concept that moves us to give justice some form of reality (contingent, since its inexistence weakens and destroys whatever form of reality we give it). In this sense, the idea is trying to comprehend what is the impulse that gives “reality” to the religious through the idea of God; but the same as justice, the religious result is contingent and it’s supported in the inexistence of God. In this sense is that I have faith in God.

All of the above is of course pretty much influenced by authors I´ve read. But that´s how I´ve synthetize my very questionable view. Also, bear in mind that this is a perception of God/god, I don´t think I´ve given enough to infer conclusions regarding prayer, liturgy, or specificities on religion.
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#2
You could have saved all that time typing and just said you are agnostic.
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#3
I am not (as far as I´m concern). What do you mean by agnostic?
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#4
A person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
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#5
So… in a reduced technicality (for clarification purposes), that would mean I´m an agnostic believer?
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#6
One of my favorite quotes is: "If you do not believe in God, then you are not paying attention." I believe in God. I have seen to much evidence to the contrary. But I also believe that God is more than we can ever imagine. We keep trying to put Him in terms that we can understand. Then we restrict Him and then place restrictions around Him as to how we can relate to Him.

Have you ever watched children playing? They do not believe in God. They do not NOT believe in God. They do not care what religion their playmates are. They do not care what color skin their playmates have. They do not care if the other is disabled, cannot walk, cannot see. They don't even care if they know the same language! They just accept the here and now and enjoy the present. Why can't we? Why do we dwell on what we cannot understand?

So you do not wish to bleive in God. Good for you! I do, but why would I want to impose my beliefs on you and change you? That is not fair to either of us. So I accept that you do not believe just as you should accept that I do. We can discuss, we can compare, we can be friends. No more, no less.

Or did I wander off the track...again?
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#7
I'm having difficulty determining exactly what you are trying to say. However, it just seems like you are floating somewhere around the ontological argument for God. Your insistence on God not existing in the objective sense just seems to be a formulation of the Platonic idea of forms, which leads to a conventional ontological argument:

- Our understanding of God is a being than which no greater can be conceived.
- The idea of God exists in the mind.
- A being which exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only in the mind.
- If God only exists in the mind, then we can conceive of a greater being—that which exists in reality.
- We cannot be imagining something that is greater than God.
- Therefore, God exists.

However, I feel you are being inconsistent and slippery in your use of terms which leads to incoherence in your argument. Any attempt to argue for the existence of God first requires defining clearly what is meant by the terms used, including the concept of existence itself.
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#8
Truth be told I have a hard time understanding what exactly your view on God is. It's not that I couldn't understand the text, but everything in it felt incredibly vague. Are you implying that the human idea of God gives birth to some concept that still isn't quite the same as the traditional omnipotent one? I really don't understand...
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#9
Just a thought. Is God a BEING or a CONCEPT? or BOTH?
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#10
jimbopdxus Wrote:Just a thought. Is God a BEING or a CONCEPT? or BOTH?

I don't believe in God, but if I did I'm not sure. The only thing I do know is that a being such as the Christian God cannot possibly exist. Too many contradictions. Omnipotence itself is just a paradox.
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