Quote by TonyandDonuts:
The thing is, with those examples, its very clear as day who's blond or green eyed. You can never tell for sure who's gay unless they tell you. We still live in a society where being gay is considered "not normal" even if most people think its okay. People will always just assume you're straight unless you correct them. Saves you from an awkward situation when some of your guy friends take you to a strip club and want you to get a lapdance from a girl. Being gay doesn't have to be a huge deal, but keeping it to yourself doesn't help anything.
The point is that "Coming Out" is a NEGATIVE reinforcement!
This is blatant hetero stereotyping and tagging.
Look at it from a psychological point of view---
(I will make this as clear and basic as I can)
"Coming Out" = something to hide
Something to hide = something BAD
Something BAD = something that is harmful and detrimental and worthy of being hidden
Worthy of being hidden = something that effects society as a whole
Being "gay" is NOT something that effects society as a whole, as it is a PREFERENCE of a natural attraction....NOT something that is dirty, diseased, and has a negative impact on society as a whole!!
When you enforce "coming out", you are enforcing a BAD, NEGATIVE hetero stereotyping tag. You are NOT being helpful in any way, shape, or form.
Your PERSONAL preferences are just that. PERSONAL! What sex you are attracted too is nobody's concern, as is it is nobody's concern that you are born with natural preferences to colors, sounds, shapes, or whatever.
As long as "coming out" is reinforced on homosexual people as a "good" thing, it is not. It means you have something to hide...something detrimental, damaging, and negative to yourself and/or society.
If you are a male and come home with a boyfriend, or a girl and come home with a girlfriend, then I would expect that even a completely brain dead human being would understand what your PERSONAL preference is in a potential mate. Nothing more be said. And if someone doesnt like it, thats THEIR problem not yours.
There is NO reason for it. You are just giving people a reason to be stressed, depressed, anxiety ridden, and suicidal by convincing them that being "gay" is something SO bad, sick, depraved, and diseased, that it has to be "put in a closet".
"Coming Out" REINFORCES THE NEGATIVE AND HATEFUL STEREOTYPE of what the world thinks of homosexuals. And until it STOPS... and proclaiming "gay" is just as useless as telling someone you are blond, green eyed, or have two feet.......it is going to get worse.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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MisterTinkles Wrote:Quote by TonyandDonuts:
The thing is, with those examples, its very clear as day who's blond or green eyed. You can never tell for sure who's gay unless they tell you. We still live in a society where being gay is considered "not normal" even if most people think its okay. People will always just assume you're straight unless you correct them. Saves you from an awkward situation when some of your guy friends take you to a strip club and want you to get a lapdance from a girl. Being gay doesn't have to be a huge deal, but keeping it to yourself doesn't help anything.
The point is that "Coming Out" is a NEGATIVE reinforcement!
This is blatant hetero stereotyping and tagging.
Look at it from a psychological point of view---
(I will make this as clear and basic as I can)
"Coming Out" = something to hide
Something to hide = something BAD
Something BAD = something that is harmful and detrimental and worthy of being hidden
Worthy of being hidden = something that effects society as a whole
Being "gay" is NOT something that effects society as a whole, as it is a PREFERENCE of a natural attraction....NOT something that is dirty, diseased, and has a negative impact on society as a whole!!
When you enforce "coming out", you are enforcing a BAD, NEGATIVE hetero stereotyping tag. You are NOT being helpful in any way, shape, or form.
Your PERSONAL preferences are just that. PERSONAL! What sex you are attracted too is nobody's concern, as is it is nobody's concern that you are born with natural preferences to colors, sounds, shapes, or whatever.
As long as "coming out" is reinforced on homosexual people as a "good" thing, it is not. It means you have something to hide...something detrimental, damaging, and negative to yourself and/or society.
If you are a male and come home with a boyfriend, or a girl and come home with a girlfriend, then I would expect that even a completely brain dead human being would understand what your PERSONAL preference is in a potential mate. Nothing more be said. And if someone doesnt like it, thats THEIR problem not yours.
There is NO reason for it. You are just giving people a reason to be stressed, depressed, anxiety ridden, and suicidal by convincing them that being "gay" is something SO bad, sick, depraved, and diseased, that it has to be "put in a closet".
"Coming Out" REINFORCES THE NEGATIVE AND HATEFUL STEREOTYPE of what the world thinks of homosexuals. And until it STOPS... and proclaiming "gay" is just as useless as telling someone you are blond, green eyed, or have two feet.......it is going to get worse.
Look, "coming out" as a term isn't implying anything remotely negative, but rather secret and unheard of by others. Given that heterosexuality is the norm by far, every child growing up will make a distinction between people who love members of the opposite sex and members who love people of the same sex. Regardless of their personal feelings towards this, the distinction is made and in most places it's a well-known rule that people who love the same sex face more social obstacles.
Depending on where he/she lives, a gay teen may face anything from physical assaults to verbal slander and mere prejudice. As someone who realized his sexuality somewhat early on (11) this is fucking terrifying. When I came out at age 16 my goal wasn't to inform the world of my sexual preferences for no apparent reason. Years of extreme angst and fear had been counquered by the more mature notion than "I don't care what happens to me, this is who I am" and so I started telling some of my friends about my sexuality.
Throughout their childhoods, in almost all cases, gay people live under constant terror of their secret being discovered. Coming out is a process of ridding yourself of said secret, thus making yourself immune to its power. In a perfect and wonderful utopia where homosexuality isn't even frowned upon in the slightest, the process of coming out is probably unnecessary and excessive. At the moment however, it can be a very powerful process of freeing yourself and it meant a lot to me personally. Everyone's different though, a lot of people choose to never announce their sexuality verbally for one reason or another. Don't act like it's up to you to say what gay people should and shouldn't do or that coming out is equivalent to perpetuating stereotypes - it's a very individual thing.
Now, telling people they HAVE to come out, that's wrong.
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Congratulations to Tom for successfully applying for his exit visa from Narnia.
But can we get over it now!
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partis Wrote:Im fucking fed up with people on here and elsewhere saying tom shouldnt have needed to announce hes gay.
FIRSTLY, he didnt need to, he CHOOSE to.
SECONDLY, how would anyone know otherwise, as people are generally presumed straight.
THIRDLY - theres been nothing but support.
SO GET OVER IT.
Were never going to blend in 100% in our surroundings. Most gay people have to tell someone eventual. someone like tom who has.been such a star since a young age, it will always be a MOMENT to announce there not STRAIGHT.
You people need to stop getting it twisted!
That's true
some guy announced his orientation...good for him!
there shouldn't be all this " I knew it" "he shouldn't have" "he should have earlier"..
it's his damn life.
my props to him for being in the open about something that he doesn't need by law to publicize anyway
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Hold on, he didn't say he was gay, he said he was in love of a man but still fancy ma gurls, but bitch ain't feeling the labels. :b
MisterTinkles Wrote:So?????????????????????????????????
Who cares??????????????????????????????????????????
Whats this got to do with global economics, corrupt government, and the homeless???????
Dude, most of us care, this is supposed to help other people to come out, and this forums were made for that, if you want to read about all that sad shit you just mentioned go to other forums.
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sillyboy86 Wrote:Or maybe the time will not tell anything. It's his own business at the end. And "the strong feeling he's gay" Do you know him personally? LOL. Stereotypes...
Lol, time will always tell. I hate to say it but there's a reason some stereotypes like this go around. Before he came out, a good portion of people had a strong feeling he was non-heterosexual, and none of us have to know him personally to get the vibe.
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I suppose Princey, I can see that point.
And to conjunct what Part is said, we wouldn't have known he was gay or bisexual, had he not told us... Does it make a difference? He's still the same person, why should coming out even matter so much? Whether he was misquoted or quoted accurately?
I could be a bit biased, despite where I am from and live and my upbringing, I've always been who I am and never really hid it, so I can't directly relate, but I do know what its like to be gay and be scared, but to me, having to make distinctions of myself in regards and parralel of others is not something I like to do, nor find necessary.
Quite frankly, I don't care. I admire and commend his struggles, achievements, as a person I can appreciate him, but to have to "set the record" and prove things to me make no sense.
So he was misquoted, slandered, its gonna happen regardless of any particular topic in his life, especially because he is in the public eye, but to react and give rise to introspect of his life and personal thoughts for others, for the sake of their pacification and understanding, seems unfair on him and is only proliferating a problem, similar to what Mr.Tinkles said.
Most gay men are "straight acting" or "Masculine" and do not want to be seen some way and yet, want for their gay identities to be known and accepted, when they themselves do not appreciate themselves enough to love and be happy with who they are, regardless of the opinions and judgments of others.
And so to encourage this coming out thing, seems to only procreate a desire and effect of a double sword, upon which all gays must fall on.
You don't want Gays to be seen a certain way and are perhaps yourself not at ease with who you are because of existing stereotypes that you don't want to live up to and yet, Coming out counters this by giving rise to an identity known ubiquitously as "Gay" or more specifically, "Different" and all the stereotypes associated with it from historic societal idiosyncratic nomenclature.
I get that it is a mental tool, perhaps a very important one as much so as it is Emotionally important, but it's also a crutch.
I believe in all people and the strength they possess and our ability to blend and love and harmonize, despite how things may look now in today's society.
We can be who we are and not be ashamed and not have to come out to people, because we are just like everyone else. Why do we have to come out of anything? It purposefully ostracizes us from everyone else and is ironically the tool that is meant to bring us together.
I realize Princey, this is not an ideal world, but as Ghandi said; "Be the change you want to see in the world". He never said to make everyone else have to see it too.
You are the sum of your parts, not the whole of your division. As commonly seen by practioners of Tactical Strategy and in War.
I suppose that is my point in all this;
You are gay, but gay is not all you are. Having to come out as gay, lesbian, bisexual, that's giving a meaning to who you are on that alone, when there is so much more.
I don't know Tom, but I only knew him as that British gay guy from YouTube and then, only after looking him up, have seen his achievements and what not.
Similar to Martin Luther King, judge not from the colour of my skin, but the content of my character.
The Stigma of gay and the closet gives uppance to the idealism that until we can be judged in normative terms, I.e - abnormal or different, we do not have individualistic characters and that coming out gives them that power.
For some of us, we do not have a choice as we can be more easily perceived, but I can guarantee you that I do not let being Gay define who I am and that coming out would've given away my power of being known by anything else.
In the end, I appreciate the concept, I understand the struggle, even if I myself have not gone through it, I appreciate him and the courage it must've taken, but to say all that to say this;
Nothing has changed. He is still the same. He may help other gay kids, which is fantastic and what I hope this achieves, but until people, especially lgbtq, learn that being who they are and being proud of who they are is enough, things will never change.
Violence begets violence
Pain begets pain
But conversely;
Acceptance begets acceptance
Kindness begets Kindness
Us coming out is not us garning acceptance, we have to accept ourselves first.
They can't accept and treat us the way we want, if we do not treat each other and ourselves the way we want.
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Mmm, he so cute.
Who can't understand why stars coming out's is very important for society, I would like to say that for young LGBTs it's very important. Teens in difficult situations, under pressure, don't know what to do, is it wrong or not, and so on... When famous person, like Tom Daly comes out, it gives certainty, what very important when you're in depression. Watch the Oprah's show with Ricky Martin, where Oprah shows how Martin's came out helped order Americans (even not teens, adults).
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NeedTips Wrote:Lol, time will always tell. I hate to say it but there's a reason some stereotypes like this go around. Before he came out, a good portion of people had a strong feeling he was non-heterosexual, and none of us have to know him personally to get the vibe.
People get a strong feeling that I'm a serial killer. That doesn't make it true.
But anyways, congrats to him for just being open about who he is. Whatever you want to call it, that's very difficult for a lot of people (myself included) all over the world. Reacting negatively to it only makes it harder for others.
Now, the rest of this thread needs a bit of my signature. Simmer down, people!
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VileKyle Wrote:People get a strong feeling that I'm a serial killer. That doesn't make it true.
But anyways, congrats to him for just being open about who he is. Whatever you want to call it, that's very difficult for a lot of people (myself included) all over the world. Reacting negatively to it only makes it harder for others.
Now, the rest of this thread needs a bit of my signature. Simmer down, people!
Thank you Horse Dick Kyle, I am so glad your on my si--
Oh wait you meant me? 
How could you include me in that? :crying-and-sorry-li
After all the passionate, tender...styling of your hair I did on my imagination! Clearly you just used me and took advantage of my love for you and your hair!
You bitch!:crying-and-sorry-li
...
Oh well, I was over it before I even made my long ass post  . I suppose you can say... I had an Enema before I became un-simmered, thus rendering this invalid.
However... The Mad Hatter is my Twin from another dimension sooo. >.>
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Tom Daley comes out as gay
