Need Help

[Serfdom]

I think I'm going nuts because the man I'm in love with is married to a woman. He's my best friend since school, he knows how I feel about him, but his marriage is party religious inspired.

The question is: should I set about destroying this marriage? If so, any tips?

Or how do I go about getting over it without going mad?

Its been three years now and I'm beginning to wonder how long its going to take before I can move on!

Any tips would be appreciated - thanks

[princealbertofb]

I think I'm going nuts because the man I'm in love with is married to a woman. He's my best friend since school, he knows how I feel about him, but his marriage is partly religious inspired.

The question is: should I set about destroying this marriage? If so, any tips?

Or how do I go about getting over it without going mad?

Its been three years now and I'm beginning to wonder how long its going to take before I can move on!

Any tips would be appreciated - thanks

1/ What do you mean by religious inspired? Do you mean that this friend HAD to get married so that his conscience would be clear? Is he gay though? What religion are we talking about? LDS? Christian? Muslim? What?

2/No, I don't think you can butt in and break up their marriage, not unless the husband (your friend) wanted you to. He'd be very sore at you and you'd lose a friend in the end. It's like trying to get someone to stop smoking, they won't unless they are ready themselves to give it a try. Otherwise it's no use, wasted energy.

3/ Last option of course is to try and detach yourself from said best friend and to make a new one or new ones and then see how things develop from there.
Have you, by any chance, Serfdom, seen Maurice or read Maurice (E.M. Forster?) Similar circumstances to what you are describing except not religious reasons but more social reasons. In the end, Maurice goes off with another, maybe more suitable partner, because the one he loved initially could not, would not return or requite his love and sexual passion... and Maurice needed something tangible.
I guess you too need something tangible, just so you don't go completely nuts. So give yourself a break, Serf, and try to get him out of your head as a possible partner, and find someone more suitable.
You mentioned that HE knew how you felt about him, but what has he said about what HE feels for you? Despite what he might feel for you, he's still gone ahead and married this woman. Has there ever been anything more between you? Or has it just been all very platonic? Is this friend "using" you?

[marshlander]

1/ What do you mean by religious inspired? Do you mean that this friend HAD to get married so that his conscience would be clear? Is he gay though? What religion are we talking about? LDS? Christian? Muslim? What? ...

Hi Albert, oh love-of-my-life

Serfdom's messages of a couple of weeks ago answer this http://www.gayspeak.com/forum/showthread...#post22942

[Serfdom]

1/ What do you mean by religious inspired? Do you mean that this friend HAD to get married so that his conscience would be clear? Is he gay though? What religion are we talking about? LDS? Christian? Muslim? What?

2/No, I don't think you can butt in and break up their marriage, not unless the husband (your friend) wanted you to. He'd be very sore at you and you'd lose a friend in the end. It's like trying to get someone to stop smoking, they won't unless they are ready themselves to give it a try. Otherwise it's no use, wasted energy.

3/ Last option of course is to try and detach yourself from said best friend and to make a new one or new ones and then see how things develop from there.
Have you, by any chance, Serfdom, seen Maurice or read Maurice (E.M. Forster?) Similar circumstances to what you are describing except not religious reasons but more social reasons. In the end, Maurice goes off with another, maybe more suitable partner, because the one he loved initially could not, would not return or requite his love and sexual passion... and Maurice needed something tangible.
I guess you too need something tangible, just so you don't go completely nuts. So give yourself a break, Serf, and try to get him out of your head as a possible partner, and find someone more suitable.
You mentioned that HE knew how you felt about him, but what has he said about what HE feels for you? Despite what he might feel for you, he's still gone ahead and married this woman. Has there ever been anything more between you? Or has it just been all very platonic? Is this friend "using" you?

Thanks for replying. I'll try and answer each point one at a time

1: He's LDS; I suspect family expecations played a role, though I can't be sure.

2: Yeah, I agree if he knew I'd done something he would be really pissed at me, though I was hoping to find a way which didn't involve him knowing. Though am not sure I could live with the guilt of that regardless of the outcome. So, maybe not a good idea.

3: I've not read or seen Maurice; I'll give it a shot.

He has told me that he loves me, but nothing has happened physically between us. He says the love is that of a brother, though I hoped for something more in time. Perhaps I was just holding out for something impossible. Getting some distance has been hard because we used to talk so much about everything, but now its only every few days when we talk because I've tried to back off to give them space but the more I do that the more painful it seems to feel.

I need to have someone I can trust and love who can tell me how things are without hesitation. Without that guidance I'm not sure if I'd survive! In a way hes still doing this role, but am having to fill in more of the gaps these days. Also, I forgot to mention that he and his wife are expecting their first child this year.

When they first got married I'd hoped that these feelings would resolve themselves with time, but it seems life isn't being as kind as that.

I guess I'm wanting to move on, but I still love him and part of me doesn't want to move on, despite knowing that this is now becoming really damaging.

Oh, and seeking out casual sex doesn't help at all - I've tried that and all it did was (oddly) be boring. Before he married, I was saving myself for him, but since hes married I saw no point in saving myself.

Gosh, I sound really messed up(!) In contrast, everything else is fine! Life is good generally and am enjoying my studies etc.

[Serfdom]

Hi Albert, oh love-of-my-life

Serfdom's messages of a couple of weeks ago answer this http://www.gayspeak.com/forum/showthread...#post22942

Gosh, I'm REALLY messed up! Perhaps these issues can only be resolved with professional help?!

[marshlander]

Hi Serfdom,

You are in a tough place and I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this. FWIW I would say that under no circumstances do you have any right to interfere with anyone's marriage (let alone that of a best friend), no matter what secrets you may know. Whether rightly or wrongly he made his decision and if you are really his friend you will respect that. If you want to be sure of any kind of long-lasting relationship at all (even if it turns out to be nothing more physical than friendship) you are going to have to let him deal with the consequences in his own way. If his marriage lasts the next few years you may end up waiting until he gets to his own mid-life crisis before he accepts what he's done. You know how strongly LDS women will fight to keep a family together, particularly if they have been sealed for time and all eternity (and if you don't yet, you may find out. It may be magnificent, but I guarantee it won't be pretty ). Sad to say it, but you have to find a way of letting go for now. Your health will suffer if you keep trying to have what is not yours.

I don't know if you see him at church, but I strongly suggest moving to another ward and try to get some kind of balance. You owe it to yourself to be the best person you can without having to rely on someone else.

Think about it the other way. If you did break up his marriage, how long would you keep him? Would you want someone who could be so easily influenced from the outside and who may come to resent your interference, however well-meant?

Honestly, he will have enough going in his life without you giving him hell and I strongly urge you to distract yourself in other ways. One of the moderators knows all about loving a man who could not requite his love. Maybe there will be more words of wisdom than I can offer.

You are both on different journeys at the moment. Try to avoid a disaster at the next cross-roads. Three years may not be long enough to get over him, but time will help. In the meantime try to hang on to your life, not his.

Best of luck to you. You have my details if you want to pvt.

[marshlander]

Thanks for replying. I'll try and answer each point one at a time

1: He's LDS; I suspect family expecations played a role, though I can't be sure.

2: Yeah, I agree if he knew I'd done something he would be really pissed at me, though I was hoping to find a way which didn't involve him knowing. Though am not sure I could live with the guilt of that regardless of the outcome. So, maybe not a good idea.

I agree. Dishonesty and consequent guilt ... a very corrosive combination.

3: I've not read or seen Maurice; I'll give it a shot.

He has told me that he loves me, but nothing has happened physically between us. He says the love is that of a brother, though I hoped for something more in time. Perhaps I was just holding out for something impossible. Getting some distance has been hard because we used to talk so much about everything, but now its only every few days when we talk because I've tried to back off to give them space but the more I do that the more painful it seems to feel.

Backing off a bit may not be enough. You should be thinking about self-preservation here.

I need to have someone I can trust and love who can tell me how things are without hesitation. Without that guidance I'm not sure if I'd survive!

Life can be very sweet far richer when you trust yourself to make decisions. I have experienced that kind of "mentor" attachment to someone in the church a couple of times when I was much younger. I have since come to the conclusion, through a bit of research of sources unauthorised by the brethren, that the LDS church is founded on lies, power and money. I am ashamed that I sought support from someone who was well-meaning, but completely misguided and lacking objectivity.

In a way hes still doing this role, but am having to fill in more of the gaps these days.

Good for you. Keep going mile: Become independent.

Also, I forgot to mention that he and his wife are expecting their first child this year.

Get out of there!! You are thinking about breaking up a family?

When they first got married I'd hoped that these feelings would resolve themselves with time, but it seems life isn't being as kind as that.

Life doesn't do "kind". Things happen. We can only make the best of what we have.

I guess I'm wanting to move on, but I still love him and part of me doesn't want to move on, despite knowing that this is now becoming really damaging.

That is the best news of all. You will achieve this eventually and you'll be stronger for it. You may well be able to come back to him in time and from a different perspective and be able to love him for who he is, not for who you want him to be.

Oh, and seeking out casual sex doesn't help at all - I've tried that and all it did was (oddly) be boring. Before he married, I was saving myself for him, but since hes married I saw no point in saving myself.

Gosh, I sound really messed up(!) In contrast, everything else is fine! Life is good generally and am enjoying my studies etc.

All this is so understandable. It's really good news that you are able to keep the other stuff ticking over. It does sound like you are making progress.

You ask about seeking professional help. If you think counselling will suit you you could give it a go. The ear of a dispassionate third party can be quite useful in helping you to articulate your thoughts and feelings. I suggest you don't go to anyone employed by the church for help. You need a bit of reason here, not the dangerous nonsense propagated by the church family services system!!

[Serfdom]

Thank you for your help. I needed someone to say how I was being a bit dumb and misguided. I agree that he's made his choice and now I have to make one too. I shall think over what you've said and come up with something to move forward without causing any damage; its not easy, but as you said life doesn't do that.

If I may ask, where did the research on the LDS church come from? Do you have a copy or links so I could check that out?

Thanks.

[spotysocks]

Thank you for your help. I needed someone to say how I was being a bit dumb and misguided. I agree that he's made his choice and now I have to make one too. I shall think over what you've said and come up with something to move forward without causing any damage; its not easy, but as you said life doesn't do that.

That's a good choice Serf. You should never get between a couple that is my believe whether is a straight or gay couple. Doesnt worth have in your conciousness the responsibility of someone's unhappiness, how bad is that...also bad karma. Instead move on as hard as it might be the reward often is greater than the pain.

When someone else becomes the center of your existence,desire, or passion the best way to get it over and move on is helping yourself to grow learn and get in touch with your inner self. Not as hard or philosophical as it might sounds. There are practical moves that you wouldnt think they would work but they do.
So if i was in your shoes first thing i would do is leave these 2 be together and wish them well , wouldnt get in touch with them or call them often if not at all until i had time to clear my head and feelings.
I dont think one night stands will help you but expanding the circle of your friends, and take on activities that interest you (travelling, reading ,sports...a dream you have that he is not involved) certainly will help a lot to grow as an individual and in confidence will lead into new exciting adventures where emotional satisfaction and love awaits. Be brave enough to do it, you know what they say life is for the brave, best of luck mile:

[marshlander]

Thank you for your help. I needed someone to say how I was being a bit dumb and misguided. I agree that he's made his choice and now I have to make one too. I shall think over what you've said and come up with something to move forward without causing any damage; its not easy, but as you said life doesn't do that.

If I may ask, where did the research on the LDS church come from? Do you have a copy or links so I could check that out?

Thanks.

You're not being dumb, you just need a big hug

The research wasn't much of an issue for me until recently when I reconnected with an old friend through Facebook. For many years he was number one on a British Stake HC and very good friends with one of the 70s. I would never have thought of him as apostate in a million years before. He was TBM through and through. He came across some stuff about polyandry, which the church has always denied. Being an organisation obsessed with keeping records, though, plenty of material exists, even records showing the illegal polygamous "marriages" of Smith, and "heroic" missionaries such as Heber C. Kimball, John Taylor and many others who took additional wives even though these women were still (in many cases) legally married. My friend was even given access to some normally sealed archival material and from that has written an interesting and very detailed document, an early manuscript of which I have read. A lighter version is found in an interesting book by Arza Evans called "The Keystone of Mormonism", which I bought recently from Amazon. You may have heard of "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn M Brodie who, I believe, was a niece of David O McKay?

The missionary discussions don't mention how Joseph Smith "translated" the gold plates by putting a stone he stole from a neighbour in his hat and then burying his face in the hat! Yet it is recorded in writings verified as coming from the original witnesses to the BoM. Why did all the witnesses leave the church, if they were truly in the presence of a prophet? When I was a teenager I managed to have a look at an early edition of the Book of Mormon and was puzzled that some of the scriptures didn't seem to be the same as the ones I'd learned to scripture chase in Seminary. None of my teachers answered my questions in any satisfying kind of way, but it seems that over the years, the mistakes of continuity that came about through Smith's stream of consciousness "translations" have been edited out, even though what is left is utterly preposterous and flies completely in the face of evidence-based data provided by archeology, biology and even geography! The process is still going on. How many times have you asked a question and been told the answer will be revealed in the fullness of time? One of the four standard works, The Pearl of Great Price is now pretty much completely discredited. The only people who don't seem to realise it are Mormons. There is no such thing as reformed Egyptian, or whatever language Smith claimed he could read. If it weren't so sad it would be funny.

I used to hold a temple recommend and remember enacting in the endowment ceremony the grizzly ways in which I might expect to die if I revealed certain "sacred" secrets. Apparently that is no longer part of the ritual and is even subject to Orwellian revisionism to the extent that I'm told some people even deny that it was ever part of the endowment! Astonishing!!

An interesting website to begin looking at is http://www.exmormon.org/ The links page is here and should keep you busy for the next few months http://www.exmormon.org/goodsite.htm

I haven't the patience to do the research in depth, but my friend who has spent the best part of the last four years researching and writing his book on polyandry says that most documents are now published on the web. His book may well end up there too. Keep in touch if you are interested.

Finally, to bring this back to something more relevant to this site, you may want to look at http://www.gaymormonstories.com/gaymen.html but be prepared to shed a few tears.