Politically correct or common sense?

[LONDONER]

I picked this up from another Forum. I am not saying that I agree or disagree with this but what do you think?

Go Dutch - but why wait until 2014?

The Netherlands, where six per cent of the population is now Muslim, is scrapping multiculturalism.

The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill, which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people".

In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role.

With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society.

The letter continues: "A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens."

It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands.

The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example, immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language, and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants because, according to Donner: "It is not the government's job to integrate immigrants." (How bloody true).

The government will introduce new legislation that outlaws forced marriages and will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress.

More specifically, the government imposed a ban on face-covering, Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013.

Holland has done that whole liberal thing, and realized - maybe too late - that creating a nation of tribes, will kill the nation itself.

The future of Australia, the UK and Canada may well be read here.

READERS NOTE: Muslim immigrants leave their countries of birth because of civil and political unrest "CREATED BY THE VERY NATURE OF THEIR CULTURE."

Countries like Holland, Canada, the UK and Australia have an established way of life that actually works, so why embrace the unworkable?

If Muslims do not wish to accept another culture, the answer is simple;
"STAY WHERE YOU ARE!!"

This gives a whole new meaning to the term; 'Dutch Courage' - Unfortunately Australian, UK, and Canadian politicians don't have the ... guts to do the same. There's a whole lot of truth here!!!!

ELECTION 2014 IS COMING
A Nation of Sheep, Breeds a Government of Wolves!

I'M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!

Let's Take a Stand!!!

Borders: Closed!

Language: English or French.

Culture: The Constitution, is the Bill of Rights!


NO freebies to: Non-Citizens! We the people are coming!!!

Only 86% will send this on. Should be 100%. What will you do?

[HumbleTangerine]

I don't know much about the situation in the Netherlands so I feel like I can't offer my opinion too confidently.

The ban on face-covering doesn't sit well with me at all.

[southbiochem]

Well, Nationalism is rising yet again in Europe. I can't say I'm surprised.

I would think that all of you Europeans have not forgotten what went on the last time that happened..

if not, type "Europe, 1945" and go around searching images

Mind you: I hold no love for any type of muslim practices, they tend to be, amongst the many religious cultures in the world one of the least tolerant and most extreme.

I see it this way: If I went to one of this countries as an atheist gay men, I would be hanged, so I don't see why these people have a right to ask me personally for tolerance anywhere else when at home they would not grant me that themselves.

I even read of a European girl raped in the UAE, denounced the rape, and got instead arrested for "having sex out of wedlock"......WTF?

That said: I am afraid that sectorizing and alienating all people from a cultural backgorund is wrong

To force people to drop their culture while going to another country is not acceptable, not in countries that defend, or so they say, democracy and freedom. Not all muslims practicioners are the same.

Although it's understood that if you go somewhere else you need to make some concessions, to adjust; forcing the incomer to give up what they are is just not feasible.

Now, true: the fact that these people migrate from home it's because of the unstable, repressive nature of these countries.

Also true: Western Powers intervening in the area for the sake of oil, have done their share in further destabilization.

I have said this before: 100-200 years ago it was the other way around. Brits, Dutch, Germans, French were all over the world colonizing. All colonized areas had to endure it. Call it karma if you will.

So the solution: if you don't like foreigners and their cultural background, well close the border..that I can agree with.

Every country it's in its own right to control which people access it.

[Vigilias]

When in Rome...

Whenever westerners travel to Muslim countries we are expected to conform to their barbaric, backward and medieval religious laws, almost expected to know them too. Look at the English school teacher who was guided by her primary school pupils to call a Teddy Bare Mohamed - she was arrested, put on trial and sentenced to so many lashes as well as custody.

She was the visitor, but what happened to the kids who should have known better? Not a lot.

Islam is the greatest threat to western democracy since Adolf Hitler.

[nfisher1226]

If you take a realistic look at any country with a mostly open border policy, and track the effects of immigration over several generations, it becomes immediately apparent that each succeeding generation becomes more assimilated than the last until they are virtually swallowed up. So really, the "problem" of immigrant groups splitting off among themselves tends to mostly take care of itself.

There are some exceptions to this of course. Many cities have a "Chinatown", and I remember well in Houston there were Korean and Indian sections of the city, where there was an overwhelmingly strong influence of just one culture to the point they even put up foreign language road signs. However time even blends those barriers, as the children decide they feel limited and move away.

This is not to say immigration is without it's problems. When a country already has a high level of unemployment, taking on large numbers of immigrants drives down wages and puts added stress on everybody. The initial generations of immigrants definitely face hostility, and often react with similar hostility.

It also can't be understated that criminals are quite commonly among those who wish to flee one country for another. Much of 20th century politics and organized crime (which are hard to tell apart) in the US were dominated by La Cosa Nostra, which was brought over here intact from Sicily and even has ties back to Sicily to this day. That said, I've got a lot of Italian friends. My best friend is Italian and middle Eastern descent. It was just a ready example.

The point is though, the type of reactionary policies described in the OP are just not really needed in the long run. While immigrants do cause some change within a society, they do assimilate, even if it takes a few generations. Society should not bow to the childish hostility of ignorant minds.

[nfisher1226]

It should also be pointed out that the English schoolteacher in question above, and the girl who was raped in the UAE too, were victimized not in England, Holland, or any other part of the world with an open borders and generally free society. Those things happened due to religious government. European countries in the dark ages were probably not any safer or more accepting than the average Middle Eastern country is today. There are also dark passages in the history of the USA, such as the Salem witch trials and the Red Scare.

What I'm getting at is that the two pronged problem those incidents point to is religious intolerance and religious government. Cracking down on Muslim immigrants is actually doing something similar to them. Selecting their religious symbols to be outlawed creates a legal preference against that religion, and by extension, a legal preference for the religion of the majority. It's counter productive, ignorant, and repressive.

[Genersis]

Hear hear!
Immigrants should always have more expected of them, and have harsher punishments; it's the only way to guarantee cultural sovereignty.

...the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants who ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

In all seriousness, sounds like some pretty scary crap.
Immigrants will seemly have their own laws which they'll have to abide by to be more Dutch, or be punished.

The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants...

Rather predictably, Muslims will be under the harshest scrutiny.
I have no idea what the above means, but I have to wonder how "special" such subsidies are.
After all, "special rights" is a term all of us should be familiar with from right-wing pundits.

...will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress.

Great idea! Punish people for being discriminated against.

More specifically, the government imposed a ban on face-covering, Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013.

I wonder how much more these laws will spread?

This kind of legislation is only going to become more common though if what I saw in the House of Commons the other day was anything to go by.

Nice to see the usual trash at the end though...it's kind of comforting in a way, to know these talking points haven't mutated into something more extreme yet.

[Woollyhats]

Hmm. I see a lot of opinions, and people pointing out that we have to conform to muslim culture when we visit their country. Maybe that's not right, but since when has it been a problem to know inside that you're the better person?

You have to understand that Canada is extremely multicultural. It is a defining part of my culture, we learn about it in school, it makes us who we are.

It's so alien to me to think about pushing our culture ahead of another --- we use the mosaic model for our country's culture (that is, our culture is derived from the mesh of hundreds of different cultures within us).

When I hear the concern's about muslims in Europe, I often think that in a democracy that as long as people are more swayed by more European principles, that there's no problem. I highly doubt that religious islamic principles are going to capture the country any time soon. As for politics, European countries tend to be progressive with things like healthcare, education, social rights. Islam as a religion is actually socialistic, so from a non-theistic point of view, there is a bit of a mesh.

A proper solution would be to have a rather difficult immigration process like we have in Canada, where one must work in a valued field we need more works in, or attend school in a relevent educational field. In this way, our immigrants are doing jobs that WE ARE NOT SUFFICIENTLY DOING ON OUR OWN --- so they benifit us.

[Ekwarph]

our immigrants are doing jobs that WE ARE NOT SUFFICIENTLY DOING ON OUR OWN --- so they benifit us.

Exactly !!

[Bowyn Aerrow]

The US of A is a nation of immigrants and we worked out the details of assimilating new people and Americanizing them over a generation or two.

We don't bother with the first generation, most come here speaking their language and we let it continue - we just talk slower and louder at them in english because we know that they will understand if we talk slow enough and loud enough. English is a universal inborn language.

As for their funny customs, well for one we target their women folk with advertisements showing pretty purses, shoes and all sorts of wonderful colors and bare lady skin. We also allow our women to talk in public and pretend to be equal with men - its all part of the plan to cause islam women to convert to Americanism.

We don't bother with targeting the first generation with our consumerism, we go for the jugular of the children, with 75% of the commercials on TV aimed either directly or indirectly at the children. We know that the adults are set in their ways.

Then we have many wonderful foods which smell great and tantalizing. Nothing like the smell of doughnuts and french fries to get people to give up that non-pork diet of theirs.

At school our children teach the new immigrant children exactly which brand names they must have or die a death of social peer pressure, so those kids will go home and tell their islamic parents 'I must have nikes or I will DIE!!!!!!!!'

The Dutch, the Brits and all of these others are way to concerned with converting the first generation - see that is where your problem lies. Assimilation of peoples is a practice of patience and aiming at the next generation. After all the immigrants themselves is not what you want, its their ability to procreate more useless eaters, more consumers that is important. Lets face it, you only want their procreation organs, you don't want them.

I think another problem with the European system is your too easy to accept people. You got to make it a little harder and pretend you don't want mexicans flooding into your nation, sorry, Islamies (They are from your south, everything south really is Mexico - well of the white skin know that).

You also need to spend time south of the boarder, you need to take your dollar to them and your culture on vacation and flood them with silly notions that Europeans live high on the hog thus tantalize them to learn English so the can sell cheap lead soaked items to vacationers for 5000 pesos, or whatever currency they use.

Oh and stop bombing them all the time. Bombing them just makes them angry....