Shadow Wrote:I think when most people use the phrase "flaunting your sexuality", what they mean is behaving in a manner which deliberately accentuates, or makes a focal point of, your sexuality, in a negative way ... so like ... if you were all over your mates to the point of making them uncomfortable ... or if you were constantly making reference to penises and stuff in conversation, to the extent that it became almost singular ... that's kinda "flaunting your sexuality" behaviour.
... at least that's my understanding of it as a term ...
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
But then THAT isn't really fair, because heteros regularly " flaunt their sexuality" and nobody says anything about that? I know, it doesn't make it right... but, they tell jokes, they brag, they make vicious or vulgar remarks about all kinds of sexual behaviour and they certainly flaunt their sexuality when they kiss in the streets / public places with no shame whatsoever... Are you really being fair, Shadow? Heteros are regularly as randy if not more so than gays. There are still lots of us in closets, not daring to show an ounce of our sexualities to the world.
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PA, I am so with you... just disgusts me the rule of the simple minded heteros with their petty hatred of anything different!!!
We are here! We are QUEER. Get use to it - you stupid mfers!!! LOL.
poor kids these days dont got any good chants...
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marshlander Wrote:Hmm, are hippies still like that? Having played for a hippy festival last weekend the ones I met were just like the rest of us. The rest I already knew because we'd been friends for years 
To be honest, I dont know any hippies.... and doubt I ever will (what with not being a 60s boy..... mind you, you're not either, so there may be hope for me yet!) I think I use the word more to refer to an ideology more than a group. If that isnt what they stand for anymore... than I retract my desire to be one!!
princealber Wrote:Who's to say it's a minority???
I dont think it is.... the amount of men "up for it" is quite astonishing (and thats only after 6months or so of looking.)
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Billington Wrote:To be honest, I dont know any hippies.... and doubt I ever will (what with not being a 60s boy..... mind you, you're not either, so there may be hope for me yet!) I think I use the word more to refer to an ideology more than a group. If that isnt what they stand for anymore... than I retract my desire to be one!! Point taken
I don't know what would qualify me as a 60s boy, but I appreciate being thought younger. It was in 1970, when I was 15 and a friend and I had gone to Belgium to begin a hitchiking adventure that took us into Germany. One day I was sitting by the quayside in Ostend, playing my guitar, when I was approached by an earnest man with a notebook. After trying several languages he settled on English and introduced himself as a reporter writing an article for a French magazine. He asked me, "Are you a 'ippy or in any way connected wi' ze movement?" It struck me as an improbably silly question to ask and an impossibly difficult one to answer. To admit to being one was definitely not to be one. Labelling became more fashionable later. All he had to go on in singling me out were the long hair, tie-dyed, patchwork clothes, guitar, love-beads and bare feet. It's not like I was doing drugs or anything  And yes, I had fully signed up to the peace and love thing in 1967 as a know-nothing twelve year old. By the time I was fifteen I had been to many of the festivals and concerts that helped define that generation, knowing that I could ask for food, safe shelter or friendship if ever I needed it and not go wanting. My parents were very tolerant when I sometimes brought new, but homeless, friends back to stay for a few days too. Sometimes my dad even arranged some paid work labouring with his building firm, when someone was in a particularly difficult situation. I did sincerely feel we were creating a new and better way of doing things. Of course, history tells us it didn't quite work out how we hoped.
The vibe at the recent festival I referred to in my previous post was nothing like the chaos, anarchy, love, openness and optimism of the late 60s and early 70s, although I daresay it was more "realistic". Some of us were still idealistically attached to those values even though others were employing more aggressive tactics in their pursuit of a new world order. Still, the fact I can remember it seems to indicate I wasn't actually there. 
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marshlander Wrote:Point taken
All he had to go on in singling me out were the long hair, tie-dyed, patchwork clothes, guitar, love-beads and bare feet.
DEFINITELY hippy!!! Woooo..... so pleased to have met my first!!!! It is something that interests me, but only on a would-be-nice-if-it-worked ideological level. Im too tory to believe it could actually work (feels too left wing for me)
However... like I've mentioned.... I dont see why people cant be more hippy in their views towards each other regarding issues such as sexuality. Cant everyone be free to do what ever the hell they like in life, if it's within their means.
This is why im a "liberal conservative". Never thought it existed, but im beginning to see how it can.
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We are accepted in some areas of life the thing is u can never abolish anything u will find in the gay community people will discriminate against other gays such as campness, dress code etc, Discrimination will be around till the end of days in my opinion and i dont always worry about things
kindest regards
zeon x
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princealbertofb Wrote:Who's to say it's a minority???
princealbertofb Wrote:But then THAT isn't really fair, because heteros regularly "flaunt their sexuality" and nobody says anything about that? I know, it doesn't make it right... but, they tell jokes, they brag, they make vicious or vulgar remarks about all kinds of sexual behaviour and they certainly flaunt their sexuality when they kiss in the streets / public places with no shame whatsoever... Are you really being fair, Shadow? Heteros are regularly as randy if not more so than gays. There are still lots of us in closets, not daring to show an ounce of our sexualities to the world.
Ok pause. I didn't notice these two comments or I would have responded to them earlier ...
Point 1) yup I take it, and you're right - bisexuality may not be a minority - I was just sloppy with my words ... probably because I was enthused as I was typing  mile:.
Point 2) I think you misunderstood the point I was making mon ami. For the avoidance of doubt (and if you re-read what I said I'm sure you'll see this), I was merely explaining to sox-and-the-city what I believe the term "flaunting your sexuality" means, nothing more, and I was certainly not passing comment as to the viability of it being applied to any sexual bracket, homo- bi- or heterosexual alike.
It's used as an almost uniformly derogatory reference to a person's conduct, and I don't think like that, let alone endorse it.
Cheers.
xx
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
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I know I am a newbie and this thread is somewhat aged however I could not resist adding my tuppence...
But before I do I have to say that I was very impressed by the length and the thoughtfulness of the responses posted, far better then you get on most internet forums. I don't have the time or enthusiasm to write a long multi-quoting post specifically replying to various points made so far, that said I hope to pick up on a number of ideas that have raised their heads.
To start with the original poster's question: will we ever be accepted by society? My answer is yes we will, we have come so far since the mid-point of the 20th century that I think it is inevitable. However there is a rather big caveat. I do not think there is any such thing as full acceptance because there is no single homogenous entity called society. Society is made of various overlapping groups, individuals being members of various different groups. For example, in addition to being a gay male, I may also be classed as English, Northern and a graduate. To me acceptance means being a gay male (or female, or bisexual) becomes just one of those umpteen overlapping groups. However this is the real world, and each of these groups is not necessarily hugely fond of all the others, although peer pressure and polite society may cause them to bite their tongue.
Or to put it another way we will be accepted when our sexual orientation is not seen as the most important thing about us, when heterosexuals see us as more as belonging to the same groups as them than they see us as being gay, lesbian or bisexual. I.e. we have more in common than not.
This brings me to gay pride. First I admit I have not actually been to a gay pride event so my knowledge of them is mainly via the media. However your average heterosexual is not going to visit a gay pridge event either and will form an opinion through the media. The modern gay pride event in Britain appears to be a steet party and not, significantly, a gay rights demonstration. I do not see them changing anybodies mind about gay rights, gays in society, etc. In fact some of the more 'noteable' antics that go on actively hinder efforts to change hearts and minds.
So what will change hearts and minds? I think that heterosexuals seeing that some of the people they meet during their ordinary lives, neighbours, workmates, fellow travellers stranded by the late train, etc. are gay is what is needed for us to be seen as one of them. Which is why I do try and hold my boyfriend's hand in public as often as possible, as a political statement as well as a romantic one. (However that said I don't do so where I might fear for our safety.)
I think I have rambled on for long enough, I hope it makes some sort of sense.
Fred
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