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I miss dating gay guys (rant)
#11
justmoi Wrote:I have to say i think you made some kinda rude and sweeping assumptions in your post tbh.

Now I want to read it.. but I don't want to.. it's soo looong Sad

Fine, I read it.

The few trans stories I know of, involve the child wanting to be / firmly believing it is of the opposite gender, from a very very young age. Because those are the stories I know, that's what I would assume to be the case for any trans-person.
Being something on the inside and something else on the outside must be the most painful thing in the world.

You know I love my labels and while what Bowyn writes is offensive, it is probably also atleast partly true. But you should be careful with who you let in justmoi, I think he has a fair point with closet-gay predators wanting to use you as an outlet and stay closeted. Obviously, that will not be the case for everybody, but as long as you're aware that that could potentially happen, you can keep an eye out for it and try not to get hurt.

I should really type a whole lot more, and manipulate you all into reading my colossal wall of text, so I'll just be rambling on a lot more here, to get back at Bowyn for making me read his novel on relationships, transgender, gay couples and roles outside the bedroom. He also quickly went through the .. whatever rambling done.
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#12
Welllll...I just felt like what was said was highly insensitive to my personal experience. He acted like I was just a guy who decided to change to a girl and now can't understand the female experience...reality check...I've considered myself female since I was little and started using a female name at like 8, I grew up in an isolated Italian immigrant community never went to school had no socialization, let alone male socialization, passed as a little girl most of my childhood, and started transitioning as soon as I moved away.

Then the stuff he said about bisexualism basically being fake or the only guys that would ever like me would have to be self haters was just flat out mean and uncalled for.
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#13
justmoi Wrote:Welllll...I just felt like what was said was highly insensitive to my personal experience. He acted like I was just a guy who decided to change to a girl and now can't understand the female experience...reality check...I've considered myself female since I was little and started using a female name at like 8, I grew up in an isolated Italian immigrant community never went to school had no socialization, let alone male socialization, passed as a little girl most of my childhood, and started transitioning as soon as I moved away.

Then the stuff he said about bisexualism basically being fake or the only guys that would ever like me would have to be self haters was just flat out mean and uncalled for.

I edited my post. I don't think he was trying to be mean, he's usally a nice guy. I think he was just throwing out his wisdom for you to embrace and use for your benefit (not getting hurt by picking up a closeted gay guy and starting a relationship with him that will most likely end in disaster) or discard.

And the stories (from various sources) I heard totally sound like yours, except they weren't socially isolated. They faced the issues of their mum forcing them into the gender that was picked for them by buying them boys' toys, boys' clothes, taking them to boys' sports etc. One story involved the child trying to cut his member off .. :O, this was when the mum woke up and asked for help. Went to a psychologist with the child etc. Eventually the child got to dress, act and play as a girl and transitioned physically at 17, if memory serves me.
Oh and they're not as much stories as they are accounts from the life of a transgender person.
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#14
My post was not a personal attack, it was an attempt to give you a quick education on sex, sexuality and how gender roles are perceived by society as a whole.

That you took it as a personal attack may be suggestive that the whole subject is a tender spot for you. I have little doubt that you have been attacked before thus most likely are prepared to be attacked.

I was coming from the general perspective of how society as a whole generally treats people based on their gender. I tried to shove as much into my 'wall of text' as I could trying to keep from writing a 'wall of text' (since apparently it annoys people to read - right Cuddly?:tongueSmile

Now I did throw in the word 'assume' a lot - to indicate that I have not been in contact with your therapist(s) and hormone doctor, thus I do not have your files to get an idea of you as an individual. So I had to make some assumptions based on what I have experienced and the tales of others who I have known and know.

I have about 48 years of experience on this god forsaken ball of mud. I'm a keen observer of the human species, further more I do have a little formal education in psychology and sociology - it was necessary when to get my D.Min since ministers are often counselors on top of spiritual advisers.

On top of that, as a gay male I had my own personal struggles with society and how it is less than accepting of LGBT in general. Instead of pouting and complaining I went the 'self education' route to get an understanding of why LGBT are treated they way they are.

I also have had a close relationship with at least one Tranny. One day I intend to write a book dedicated to her, the working title is 'My Momma Was a Black Man'.

She was a surrogate mother to me. If you knew my biological mother and her singular lack of maternal instinct, then you would understand just how important Momma was to me. Through her and her many friends (lets call them aunts and uncles to give an indication of how I felt about them) I was given an 'education' on how society treats transitioning individuals, both m-f and f-m.

Everything you said is 'typical' for transitioning people. M-F transitioning people tend to get it rougher than F-M ones. I was attempting to explain to you why. I hope that if you understood 'why' behind stuff that you will be able to protect yourself in future.



I'm not 'anti-trans G/S' - I freely admit that the chances of me getting into a lovers relationship with a m-f trans g/s is pretty low - but that has more to do with preferences of body types than my like or dislike of trans g/s.

Since there are two lesbians who I feel in at least infatuation with I will not rule out f-m Trans G/S.

My own take on bisexuality is that bisexuality is the norm, I adhere to the theory that most (not all) fall on a scale of bisexuality. Partially due to the 2 women who I was attracted to, largely due to the fact I'm at the very least well read if not somewhat educated.

Bisexuality: I was attempting to give you an idea of how bisexuals are treated and a peek into why they are treated the way they are. I also tried to give you a bit of insight of the types of guys who may be more prone to dating you and why.

The use of bisexuality as a 'stepping stone' from the closet to identifying oneself as 100% gay/lesbian is a well known phenomenon. It has consequences - such as that bisexuals are not treated as being 'real' - that a majority in both hetero and LGBT communities look down on bisexuals and make the assumption that a bi person is in their own 'transition' from closet to gay.

I know that human beings are a bit more crafty than they appear. While seemingly straight guys may appear to be attracted to you as 100% women, humans tend to be a bit more smarter than they behave. My guts tell me that they have picked up on subtle clues of your birth gender and they narrow in to target you.

One example is the voice box. A minor lump in the throat that most people do not consciously perceive, but we all know its there and we know what it means (your a dude). There are always going to be clues to your gender at birth. Medical science has come a long way, true, but total transition is still not possible.

I have a bit of fear that you will be used by more guys who are in their own sexual identity transition from closet to gay. Then there are the predatory types, those individuals who are not wholly healthy. It is not a nice thing, however if Momma and all of the other people's life experiences are any indicator it is 'par for the course'.

I also tried to explain gender roles and how people are treated based on what does or does not hang between their legs.

Like it or not as soon as you were born and the doctor announced 'Its a boy' your parents and everyone else around you started your programming as to what your gender means in society. You were wrapped in a blue blanket, dad most likely gave you a 'male' toy as your first gift, the parents immediately started planning your life around your penis, expecting you to grow up to be a man, marry a woman, have the 2.5 offspring, the suburban dream home and live up to expectations of being a male.

Everyone is treated to this process, one I call 'genderfication'. I am fully opposed to it, it strengthens the idea that women are someone less than than men. And inequality is still an issue in the 21st century.

While you may have been effeminate starting at some point in your early childhood, this does not mean you were treated like a girl. I suspect that there may have been a power struggle there. I do not know your parents but the typical way this runs is that the parents try to compensate and treat their child more based on the penis or lack there off thinking that if they instill gender roles harder that it will somehow magically make you fit the plumbing.

I draw once again on the life experiences and tales of other Trans G/S individuals I have known. And study of humans and reading way too many papers and articles on human sexuality.

So yes, I seriously doubt you have full understanding of what it is to be treated like a girl. I do not say that to offend. And its neither a good thing nor a bad thing - it just is. You were born a boy - and the first three years of development are the strongest when it comes to 'programming'. Your program was decidedly male oriented. Regardless of who and what you are, you were treated as a boy. That will affect everything in your life to one degree or another.

You have (and always will have) a somewhat unique experience of being treated like a boy which will always stand in stark contrast of your being treated like a girl. You will therefore, be more aware of how people and society in general treats people based on their gender.

Again, I pull from the experiences of others. Psychology papers, education. This is not to insult you nor to make you feel less than. I say this to attempt to tell you how it all works.

You will also draw sick individuals to you. It is typical especially for m-f transitioning individuals who are pre-op. This is way too common and is a common complaint of transitioning people.

People use people. Sorry, its the nature of the beast. You are going to end up being used by a lot of people, perhaps more so due to your being where you are in your transition.

I don't like that, I honestly wish I could shield you from that. Since I can't the second best thing I can do is warn you and try to give you some of the years of my own life education to arm you with.


My intent was to give you a quick education on how things work. I do not view you as a freak, but I fear many will and they will treat you as such. I'm not the type to use people, but I fear that many will use you and since you are transitioning they will use that as well.

I would strongly suggest you get a circle of other Trans s/g individuals around you, and listen to their stories and their life experiences. I would also suggest you ask your therapist how these things work.

Cuddly: I'm sorry to inflict yet one more wall of text on you - forgive me?
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#15
No, I'm literally extremeely passable, haha. Extremely high passable voice (which never dropped)...let's put it this way, it passes better than my face which is exceprional. Female identical mannerisms. Zero adams apple to be seen...highly female body shape. I actually have had trouble passing as MALE my whole life, and it's now almost impossible.

And men, some have flipped out when I said I was transgender, cuz they had noo clue, soo, yeh, I know I'm passing with them. I think you're way overcomplicating that...closeted self hating gay men gravitating toward someone because they think she maay be trans and that would turn them on cuz the dick? Highly illogical. Especially cobsidering its been agees since anyones touched it, PER their wishes.

And I really was never treated like a boy, except by my dad. I spent the first 16 years of my life essentially not being a real person. My mother was mentally I'll and neglectful. So just me and my siblings who let me 'pretend' I was a girl, which I said I wanted to be since I was teeny I remember we had very little...i never went to school except for a month when i was 10. We had no TV or computer till I was a teenager, and that's more how I learned about the world tbh.

It was a very traumatic upbringng tbh and actually I hate talking about it, but it was objectivdly 'ungendered'. The first guy I went out with (as a boy) actually ended up asking if I was really female lool. I showed him..proof lol. But yes. I transitioned probably 3 months after leaving home, which I always regret because I feel as though I never experienced it.

And tbh I DO get treated quite badly but for other things. The only mistreatment for being trans specifically I've received in life is from men. Everyone else has accepted me. I mved back home and my mother just sees a daughter in me. The only things I have received mistreatment for is, ironically, being female...sexual harassment, coercion, and highly uncomfortable situations.

I actually honestly WISH I got to be a boy more cuz I feel like I never did. And now I'll never know if this is right...cuz it's pretty much all I've ever known, besides a few months. And that hurts me quite badly and makes me very unhappy in transition. And no I don't like that part of being a girl cuz sexism is a daily thing n my life and has been for a while.

Again, your generalizations are ignorant, sweeping, and highly invalidating. Ahh, yes I forgot about THIS side of gay men.
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#16
Also, here's a brief recording of my voice (sorry about the background noise and congestion, good enough)

Vocaroo . com /i/s0SQwz5IzWYe

No spaces

You can listen to the content or not. I doubt you'll throw away your preconceptions. However, you can know that what you've said is highly triggering stuff.
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#17
Oh Bowyn, you drive me crazy. The way you hide little grey messages for me in your gigantic wall, so I have to read it extra carefully to find them...

PWND

Do you honestly regret never having really been a boy, justmoi? I "assume" you'd have more heartache if you were treated like a boy, in spite of feeling like a girl. It's normal to wonder what life would've been like if <...>.

I can't begin to imagine what females go through, but sadly we are only animals, afterall. I reckon it's so deeprooted in our instinct and physiology that we can never achieve real gender equality.
But you seem like a strongwilled person, so I'm sure you'll survive whatever the world throws at you.
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#18
I do cuz the thing about transgenderism is...it's not necessarily an easy life. I've gotten lucky in some ways but still. And the thing is...you have to be soo sure in it. And I never got to onow for sure I didn't want to be a boy...so now I keep looking back and there's all this doubt and 'what if' and I'm starting to wish I WAS a boy,tbh, because of that. Like maybe I could have been happy that way? Probably not but I'll never know.

And see that's why his post rubbed me so wrong...because its like he's saying the opposite of one of the biggest problems in my life right now...cuz that's a big regret. I should have lived as a boy a bit first so I could be sure...because I really had no life before, and as soon as I got started having one it was this way....female and everything that comes with that but without the benefit of BEING female, like a real female. So I'm not real lol. I'm not anything. Sometimes I think I wish I was a boy cuz at least id be real, and yes, it hurts me I never reaally got to know what it was like to be real or treated well...

Its complicated I guess. And yeah I'm strong willed but it takes its toll...a big one. A reaally reaally big one. But whatever. Sorry for ranting I just got triggered by all this is all
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#19
You're real to me. Everybody has their problems. There's no denying the size of yours, but in time even yours will pass. You're taking hormones (right?), try to remember that these impact your emotions. I find its easier to deal with life if I understand why I feel what I feel. Like I get angry when I am kept from doing what I want to do, but I know that will happen so I work with it and reinforce my patience. The camel's back will eventually break, but we are flexible.
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