Perversion and censorship in literature

[HumbleTangerine]

I was skimming through an essay by Simone de Beauvoir where she opposed the destruction of certain works of literature which was being considered in France during the 1950's.

One of the targets was the infamous Marquis De Sade, a man whose social persona was forever incompatible with his perverse desires. During his life-time he was imprisoned on several occasions, usually as the result of sexual violence, and his writings depict characters who torture, rape and ultimately murder adults and children of both sexes for the sake of sexual satisfaction. These accounts are usually gruesomely detailed where human suffering is elaborated in ways that make novels like American Psycho fade in comparison. These characters usually go on to justify their actions by referring to the absence of God, subjectivity of morality and the fact that sexual desires and other impulses are products of nature and therefore inherently right, regardless of how they're conceived or expressed.

I was thinking that the acceptance or resistance to censorship in the case of literary works as depraved and horrifying as the aforementioned material would make for a pretty interesting debate. Is it justifiable to censor or completely destroy a book that portrays most imaginable paraphilias; paedophilia included for the sake of invoking sexual arousal in the reader? Is it possible that literature willing to depict the cruelest possibilities of human nature with pornographic intentions has any artistic value or is it inevitably trash to be erased from memory and history?

I am personally against most forms of censorship and I find the act of burning books based on their explicit content to be more perverse than the content itself.

[CASH]

I am new here. The other Boys of RJ who know Me will attest to the fact that I ABHOR censorship moar than ANYTHING.

I have read the works of the Marquis.

Quite frankly, I found them to be trite and pre-adolescently puerile on a strictly Grinder House level.

However, in their day they may have been shocking.

I would rather be offended by words and thoughts than be prevented from knowing them.

WORDS are the seminal reality of thoughts. And thoughts are fires that stoke knowledge. And knowledge is POWER.

To attempt to shut off the "bad" (whatever THAT is) means One is obligated to begin to shut off the Good.. The Brilliant. The GENUIS.

Let's all remember that Copernicus feared a sentence of death as a heretic for HIS thoughts...

I will take on ALL thoughts and words. But ain't afraid to fight back.

And Ya BETTER be good at it.







My days Here are REALLY numbered aren't they???

[HumbleTangerine]

Quite frankly, I found them to be trite and pre-adolescently puerile on a strictly Grinder House level.

However, in their day they may have been shocking.

I would rather be offended by words and thoughts than be prevented from knowing them.

Okay, this is a discussion that's separate from my original intent, but are you implying that his books aren't shocking with modern standards? Grindhouse is pretty extreme and tasteless by mainstream standards, but the work of De Sade is more grotesque and sadistically elaborate than any Grindhouse flick I've ever seen. I developed an interest in dark books pretty early so I've gotten somewhat desensitized, but I wouldn't want to live in a society where De Sade's books aren't considered shocking.

[Uneunsae]

I've heard about De Sade's books but tbh I'm actually afraid to read them. I'm pretty sensitive and it could put me into a depressed state for weeks if it disturbs me.

[CASH]

Okay, this is a discussion that's separate from my original intent, but are you implying that his books aren't shocking with modern standards? Grindhouse is pretty extreme and tasteless by mainstream standards, but the work of De Sade is more grotesque and sadistically elaborate than any Grindhouse flick I've ever seen. I developed an interest in dark books pretty early so I've gotten somewhat desensitized, but I wouldn't want to live in a society where De Sade's books aren't considered shocking.

OK- here goes...

You are very Young (A GOOD thing!!!) so much of it may be shocking.

But the truth is it is mostly poorly written and there have been debates FOREVER regarding the translations.

You must also understand the distinction between thoughts and actions.

I don't condone any of the crap the Marquis wrote about or allegedly indulged in.

But banning his words or thoughts would not have stopped his desires anymore than castigating a teenager with a ruler on the knuckles would prevent them from having a lustful thought.

Censorship has never shown to solve ANYTHING.

BE SHOCKED.

Just don't be blithely ignorant.

Shock will bring You to action.

Ignorance will cause You to have cocktails with people named Biff and Oatsie and REALLY worry about the gardeners trying to take home the extra fertilizer.






Yeah - set Your clocks Boys - CASH gonna be booted outta HERE...

[HumbleTangerine]

OK- here goes...

You are very Young (A GOOD thing!!!) so much of it may be shocking.

But the truth is it is mostly poorly written and there have been debates FOREVER regarding the translations.

You must also understand the distinction between thoughts and actions.

I don't condone any of the crap the Marquis wrote about or allegedly indulged in.

But banning his words or thoughts would not have stopped his desires anymore than castigating a teenager with a ruler on the knuckles would prevent them from having a lustful thought.

Censorship has never shown to solve ANYTHING.

BE SHOCKED.

Just don't be blithely ignorant.

Shock will bring You to action.

Ignorance will cause You to have cocktails with people named Biff and Oatsie and REALLY worry about the gardeners trying to take home the extra fertilizer.






Yeah - set Your clocks Boys - CASH gonna be booted outta HERE...

Well, I don't believe in censorship either. I was just arguing against your opinion that De Sade's work isn't that shocking today. Are you suggesting modern readers aren't appalled by detailed descriptions of minors being practically raped to death or tortured to death in their mother's arms?

I believe the things he wrote about would horrify and disgust mainstream society regardless of time and place.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I'm for censorship in many instances.

Not because the subject of any given book is bad, but because the average human being (this is to say the majority) are immature and unable to approach most subjects with their rational mind.

Humans have been, and are, and for all I can tell ever more shall remain an animal capable of reasoning, and not a reasoning animal.

Educated individuals should have greater allowances and privileges to 'delicate data' - those who refuse to educate themselves or allow their emotions to run over their reasoning when it comes to such data should be banned from that material.

[CASH]

Well, I don't believe in censorship either. I was just arguing against your opinion that De Sade's work isn't that shocking today. Are you suggesting modern readers aren't appalled by detailed descriptions of minors being practically raped to death or tortured to death in their mother's arms?

I believe the things he wrote about would horrify and disgust mainstream society regardless of time and place.

I understand.

The ideas taken at face value are upsetting.

But they are only slightly different than the poorly articulated fantasies of any junkie living under a bridge in downtown L.A.

For ANYONE to be a TRUE danger they must work with stealth.

To be out in the open - everyone sees the freakshow and knows what to avoid and how to manage it.

[TwisttheLeaf]

There are many forms of influence on society that we have NO choice in placing before our eyes and in our awareness. Random acts of voilence (and not so random ones), certain media influences, etc.

Books... are not in this category. WIth a book, you must consciously make the -choice- to pick it up and read it. It's a choice, and there is no involuntary influence here.

So no, I don't think censorship okay, especially not with books even above many other forms that happen in the world. We're all adults. If you don't want to see it? Then don't pick up the book. If you don't want your -child- to see it? Then use your parental rights to keep them from it until they are old enough to make their own choices and decisions.

[CASH]

I'm for censorship in many instances.

Not because the subject of any given book is bad, but because the average human being (this is to say the majority) are immature and unable to approach most subjects with their rational mind.

Humans have been, and are, and for all I can tell ever more shall remain an animal capable of reasoning, and not a reasoning animal.

Educated individuals should have greater allowances and privileges to 'delicate data' - those who refuse to educate themselves or allow their emotions to run over their reasoning when it comes to such data should be banned from that material.

Well since "you" have CLEARLY met the majority of Human Beings -- should "you" be in charge of what knowledge is available to them???

Just curious.

BTW - - the image you use for your avatar and the quotes you live by are not only made up pieces of demographically tested marketing tools created by a Studio Machine - but are formed by lore that was once considered DEMONIC by most of the Earth's population.