Ayn Rand

[meninlove]

My opinions of her
Since I read her "meaning of sex" (linked earlier) I've always liked it and found no other explanation to be better. Before this conversation that was all I knew about her.

I learned from one of the videos I posted that her concept of altruism is the same as mine. It should be done by individuals who expect no praise or thanks for doing it. I won't even list off all the things I do here locally that meet that definition.

She's right that the only way the monopolies and huge business interests can exist is with government cooperation and protection.

I think she's right that we are on earth to make the best of the lives we have and follow our own courses and take credit for our own achievements.

Actually this is one of the points where Ayn contradicts herself rather blatantly. Altruism is a huge achievement. She says hide your altruism, yet take credit for your achievements.

In my many years of volunteering I found out something interesting. When no one knows of the good works of others, less are inspired to try it themselves. *winks warmly*

[ggugcuuau]

I'd agree somewhat on her opinions about God and religion however I find her views on economic and political issues rather naive and misguided. I watched the interview memechose posted and she seemed far more influenced by her emotions than she probably would care to admit.

As a society we need checks and balances to keep some order, Laissez-faire tactics just don't work in reality.

[Dreamer]

One of my roommates is reading a book of hers, and when I found out, I thought, "how fitting.... selfish prick..." He's such a dirtbag (by everyone else's account), I don't much ever conversate with him, but by what I've been told, he's a scumbag leech who cares of only his own interests.

[Virge]

Actually this is one of the points where Ayn contradicts herself rather blatantly. Altruism is a huge achievement. She says hide your altruism, yet take credit for your achievements.

In my many years of volunteering I found out something interesting. When no one knows of the good works of others, less are inspired to try it themselves. *winks warmly*

OH I understand exactly what you're saying and I feel the same way! BUT I have to put up with this jerk ...... ummm real nice guy I'm going to marry and do things his way (and I'm not complaining!) He quotes a Roman guy named Lucretius about people who perform good deeds to put on fronts of piety trying to impress people.

I've found out his way is the most effective at making deep impressions on homophobes and straight people in general. When I do things I do them because I feel a need to do them in order to help others. I refuse any form of payment and do my best to let everyone see I'm doing it for the pure enjoyment of it. AND try to give them all something to laugh about while I'm doing it!

Example. I own a front end loader with a heated cab that I bought for my "hobby" of mining for gems during warm weather. During cold weather it sits in my yard. When we have big snows it's party time! Before the snow plows get around to doing the streets I've got all the driveways on my street and a few others I know that have to be up early for work cleared out. I clear the sidewalks through the entire neighborhood for the kids to get to the school... up to the school's doors. And to get laughs I keep the heat up high in the cab and do it in a t-shirt, shorts and crocks with knee socks.

The only payment or thanks I take is friendship and maybe once in awhile a beer or two when I hang out at our little tavern with people who wanted to kick me out when they heard there was a fag living here!

And that's just ONE of the things I do. But it gives you a good example of how altruism done this way makes a deep impression and changes people. I dare you to come here to this little village and find someone who will say bad things about gay people now... Either they will say great things about gays...or nothing because they've already been shamed so many times for being homophobes.

If you want to see the deepest philosophy I live by.... go here. LOL....
http://gayspeak.com/album.php?albumid=96...ureid=6363

[Virge]

As a society we need checks and balances to keep some order, Laissez-faire tactics just don't work in reality.

by the checks and balances you're talking about I guess you mean government oversight. So... in other words... turn ultimate control of economies over to men whose primary interest is in keeping and building their own political power. Do you realize there's never been a monopoly or huge multi national bank or a mega corporation that didn't start with or depend on underhanded government/political favors? So much for the idea of checks and balances in favor of the little people.

[COLOR="Blue"]I had a funny thought this morning about this. Bear in mind I'm an aspiring capitalist who works hard for the money I get. The basic concepts of capitalism ("I'm in this for me and what it gives me.") apply to many many many other aspects of my daily life and yours even though you either don't see it or don't want to admit it.

I got to thinking about socialism and the idea of "from each according to their ability --- to each according to their need." And I found a flaw in it that. If people who believe in "from each according to their ability -- to each according to their need" started to run their sex lives that way instead of the self interests of capitalism and Ayn Rand's philosophy I'd have more respect for socialism. GO SHARE THAT WEALTH OF SEX WITH THE NEEDY!!!!![/COLOR]

Hahahahaha! Just a stupid thought

[ggugcuuau]

Checks and balances by no means implies turning ultimate control of an economy over to the government, that would be communism which I don't believe would work any better than a laissez-faire economy. What I was saying was that companies if left to their own devices will cut corners and seek to "milk" their customers/employees for all they're worth. Thus companies need someone to answer to in those events... EPA, FDA, PTO, Labour Courts to name a few.

Rand also said she didn't believe monopolies are intrinsically evil and I'd agree with her, a well meaning and managed monopoly can benefit an economy/society just fine if done right. Politics and economics are rarely a good mix but they're married to one another for better and worse. Unfortunately it's difficult to really objectively say if any of these types of systems work since so few, if any, have ever been carried out honestly. There'll always be bad people in government but saying it's all bad (which I know you didn't say) is like making a smoothie with rotten fruit and saying all smoothies are bad

[meninlove]

The definition of altruism, not Ayn's skewed definition:
1: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
2: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species' -Meriam Webster

Any's definition: 'Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value—and so long as that beneficiary is anybody other than oneself, anything goes.'

Er, wrong Ayn, and Helen Keller has a message for you:

'Believe, when you are most unhappy, that there is something for you to do in the world. So long as you sweeten another's pain, your life is not in vain.'

And one of my faves, G Eliot , 'What do we live for, if it is not to make life less difficult for each other?'

[Virge]

Checks and balances by no means implies turning ultimate control of an economy over to the government, that would be communism which I don't believe would work any better than a laissez-faire economy. What I was saying was that companies if left to their own devices will cut corners and seek to "milk" their customers/employees for all they're worth. Thus companies need someone to answer to in those events... EPA, FDA, PTO, Labour Courts to name a few.

honestly. There'll always be bad people in government but saying it's all bad (which I know you didn't say) is like making a smoothie with rotten fruit and saying all smoothies are bad

Marked things in bold...
#1. You do realize that currently the US government is a silent partner with companies to "milk their customers/employees for all their worth," don't you? They write, re-write and make exemptions to rules on businesses that favor the big ones and make it impossible for small ones to compete in a fair market system. There are more bureaucratic (government) controls on the US production of fingernail clippers than there are on importing unregulated ones from China. Try to find nail clippers made in the USA. Good luck. And that's just one simple example. I had to buy a plain spiral bound notebook the other day. Out of over a dozen types there wasn't one that made in the USA...

#2. EPA? Really? Do you know how they test water quality in the upper Mississippi River basin? They have a paid "in house seminar" in big cities along the river, party and hire local people to bring back water samples from the river ---- every 15 years that they take over a year to analyze. No one there getting their feet wet or hands dirty.

#3 FDA. Working with the big drug companies they're in the process of farming out to 3rd world nations (who pay pennies per hour to employees) for everything from chemotherapy drugs to artificial knees. No quality control there for sure. And talk to someone in drug research about how impossible it would be to start a new US pharmaceutical company. Refer back to #1.

#4. I agree. But i have learned that with the right amounts of vodka or rum no one notices the rotten fruit taste. So have politicians in their own way.

[Miles]

Try to find nail clippers made in the USA. Good luck.

I'm not taking a stance in either direction (I'd be in way over my depth in this discussion) and this is not to invalidate your point in anyway, but I just have to mention how amused I was to look at the nail clippers I've been fiddling with while reading this to find the words "Made in USA" written on the back. Of course I then checked the other two pairs of clippers we have out of curiosity, and they were both made in China. So there's that. :p

Carry on fellas

[Virge]

One of my roommates is reading a book of hers, and when I found out, I thought, "how fitting.... selfish prick..." He's such a dirtbag (by everyone else's account), I don't much ever conversate with him, but by what I've been told, he's a scumbag leech who cares of only his own interests.

And you don't?
Try to be consistent about it. If you really believe in "sharing the wealth" and "from each according to their ability -- to each according to their need" then practice it all the way and stop cutting down people who don't.

Run on down to the homeless shelter and provide sex for the guys who aren't getting any.

Give them all your trendy clothes and make yourself some trendy shirts out of old pillowcases.

Everyone has an inherent sense of self interest. Some are just less honest about it than others.