I want to see him more often

[climatic11]

Ok, I just need to hear somebody's opinion on my relationship situation as there is nobody I can speak to.
So the basics. I have been in a gay relationship for 5/6 months now. We are both in the closet and recently graduated from university.

My problem is, since graduating we have both moved back to our parents' houses so it's already difficult for us to see each other as often. He is also a Christian and feels that his family will find it difficult to accept him being gay, so coming out of the closet (in the near future) is out of question. So seeing him at his house is virtually ruled out. On top of that he has now found a job and works 45 hours a week. As I'm currently the one who is more free and flexible (since my family don't live in the house for most of the year and I'm currently unemployed) I try my best to see him or invite him over as much as possible, in my mind seeing each other once or twice a week is minimum. However I feel like he does not see it that way. He gets exhausted after work and says he has little personal time after it so even when I try to make plans for the weekend with him its sometimes impossible for it to go through. Don't get me wrong, we keep in contact everyday but for me I miss the physical side of seeing him. I understand that he is tired after work but I don't think planning to see each other at least once a week is unreasonable.

Above all of this what is bothering me most is that I feel if this is already happening now it's going to get worse in the future. Both of us have no plans to move out in the near future so we'll be stuck in this housing situation especially since we'll both need to go back to university for another two years in which he plans to live at his house whilst I feel my current situation might mean I need to move to another city, furthering our distance. I'm scared that if he's already in that situation where he feels too busy to plan to meet me where is he going to get time to consider those bigger life decisions that would progress our relationship? We discussed this a few times when we were both living together, like how is his religion going to affect "us" stuff like that but now that we're apart I feel like these issues are going to be swept under the floor because he seems to have no time to think about these things.

I've been trying to invite him over to mine so that we could feel a little more relaxed but one of the problems I feel he sees is that he doesn't know what he could say to his family. He feels very conflicted with the situation. Firstly, he has a very close family and secondly he feels guilty for leading a double life. It seems incredibly hard for us to be able to be alone in the same room for a long, long time and that thought scares me because we will never be able to be as intimate as we once were. I'm not talking about sex, I just mean the simple level of being together without having to worry about people around you.

I think innately what made me want to seek advice, as I never thought I'd be one to do this, is that I fear that we will at some point break up. I have never felt absolutely confident in our relationship. Even from the beginning I knew there were lots of obstacles for us to tackle and whilst we did discuss this and at the time I was happy to see it through he has never given me enough assurance that this really could last because he is still conflicted with his religion and family. I fear in this current situation it'll be far in the future when he'll be able to clear these issues up but to me I don't know if I can bare to feel like this for that long especially if it means that we maintain our current level of contact and intimacy.

Sorry if this is jumbled, my minds in a mess right now.

[Virge]

Don't pressure him to move past his own limits before he feels ready to do it. You might want him in your life more than he is but if you start pressuring for that he's going to be there less.

[deepu69]

I understand your need regular for face to face meetings. Try to get a job somewhere near his locality or find one for him near yours. Talk to him regarding that and then plan it out.

[MikeW]

Homophobia or heteronormative society, whatever you want to call it, wrecks people's lives. This is a perfect example of it. Two young men who might at least have a chance at having a relationship are thrust into behaviors that don't work for either of them or their relationship. Just imagine how different this would be if they were a heterosexual couple? At least they could date openly even if they were having "premarital sex" behind the scenes. Who would be surprised or terribly offended by that in this day and age? But because they are both men, its like they're committing some heinous crime against humanity. It's utter bullshit.

This is just one example of why this stupidity, bigotry, hypocrisy and ignorant brutality has to be brought to an end. We've been working on it for lifetimes already -- but it still exists. It's better than it was but it still exists. Gay kids still grow up feeling shame, guilt, fear and believing there is something wrong with them, that they have to hide themselves and pretend to be something they're not, they sometimes kill themselves or are cast out of their families or, even when they manage to 'deal with it' inwardly, they find themselves in situations like this (and worse).

It just pisses me off. I know my ranting is off topic but frankly, I think none of us get as PISSED OFF about this as we should -- as we have every right to be. This is oppression, social oppression, clear and simple.

So, OP, what are you going to do? You're right, these stressors are impacting your relationship negatively and are going to destroy it -- one way or another, sooner or later. You feel forced to live lies and this takes a toll not only on your relationship but on your own sense of self and well being.

It basically boils down to this: Either you both value yourselves, personal integrity and your relationship enough to come out and deal with the consequences or you don't. You can either choose to stop hiding and begin to live your lives openly and honestly or you can continue to live in fear. It really is that simple.

I said "simple" -- not "easy". No, it isn't easy. There are consequences either way. That's the point I'm making. *There are consequences either way.* As the quote in my signature says, the ONLY choice you have is whether or not you're gong to be honest and accept those consequences or continue to hide and lie and accept THOSE consequences. That's it. That's the only choice you have.

But it IS a choice.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Work 45 hours a week and see how you feel by the end of month one. If you have never done it you most likely are in for a nasty surprise...

I assure you, the job thing is a lot more draining that most people expect, and is going to make everything else in his life harder to deal with.

He won't have the energy to shower, let alone try to figure out how to proceed with telling his family that he is gay, or balancing out a double life. The 'work ethic' of human society is specifically designed to keep people numb and unable to think and function - everyone gets all wrapped up in their jobs and basing their worth and value as a person on their job that it just totally steals the real purpose of life from folk.



As for coming out and reaching the point where living the lie is just not cutting it - different people have different limits.

Usually (as in most) cases where both are in the closet, one decides to come out before the other, then gets all pissy because the other wants to stay in the safe warm womb of the closet. This leads to arguments and pushing and lots of other ugly that rips a relationship apart from the inside.

Seems to me you are ready to come out, and are now wanting to push him to be were you are. I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.... each of us need to do it in our own time, and work through whatever it is that keeps us in the closet.

Yes, its most likely going to take him longer because he has this job thing taking up a huge chunk of his time and energy.

On the bright side he has a full-time job... which means that he has more opportunity to get out from under his parents.

Now if you had a job as well (for or near full) then the option of roommates opens a lovely door. two people can live as cheaply (and in many cases cheaper) than one person, thus the whole roommates thing has been around since there were rooms to mate in.... or something like that.

Perhaps if you approached it from the POV of how it is you can attain goals, and make it possible for both of you to be out from your respective parents houses (thus no longer living by their rules) then perhaps the whole coming out and living who and what you are becomes possible?

[climatic11]

Thank you for all the responses.
I think I was in a mood last night which led me to spilling out like that.

Don't pressure him to move past his own limits before he feels ready to do it. You might want him in your life more than he is but if you start pressuring for that he's going to be there less.

Thank you memechose. These past few weeks I have been worrying that I’m putting too much pressure on him. The difficulty for me has been that I want to hear a response from him, I genuinely don’t mind if it’s a negative one because I feel it's better if everything is out in the open but he prefers to shy away from the problem or maybe he just doesn’t want to burden me. I will definitely try to be more clear headed when I speak to him and give him his time.

[climatic11]

I understand your need regular for face to face meetings. Try to get a job somewhere near his locality or find one for him near yours. Talk to him regarding that and then plan it out.

Deepu69, that is what I’ve been hoping for. That once I find work around that area that we could meet up after work. Even before we graduated I was hinting at what we could do after work, like we could go for a swim or play some tennis etc. Because we both led rather unhealthy lives in uni and felt it was time to start a more active lifestyle. But I feel that that won’t happen because he’s simply too tired after work.

Homophobia or heteronormative society, whatever you want to call it, wrecks people's lives. This is a perfect example of it. Two young men who might at least have a chance at having a relationship are thrust into behaviors that don't work for either of them or their relationship. Just imagine how different this would be if they were a heterosexual couple? At least they could date openly even if they were having "premarital sex" behind the scenes. Who would be surprised or terribly offended by that in this day and age? But because they are both men, its like they're committing some heinous crime against humanity. It's utter bullshit.

This is just one example of why this stupidity, bigotry, hypocrisy and ignorant brutality has to be brought to an end. We've been working on it for lifetimes already -- but it still exists. It's better than it was but it still exists. Gay kids still grow up feeling shame, guilt, fear and believing there is something wrong with them, that they have to hide themselves and pretend to be something they're not, they sometimes kill themselves or are cast out of their families or, even when they manage to 'deal with it' inwardly, they find themselves in situations like this (and worse).

It just pisses me off. I know my ranting is off topic but frankly, I think none of us get as PISSED OFF about this as we should -- as we have every right to be. This is oppression, social oppression, clear and simple.

So, OP, what are you going to do? You're right, these stressors are impacting your relationship negatively and are going to destroy it -- one way or another, sooner or later. You feel forced to live lies and this takes a toll not only on your relationship but on your own sense of self and well being.

It basically boils down to this: Either you both value yourselves, personal integrity and your relationship enough to come out and deal with the consequences or you don't. You can either choose to stop hiding and begin to live your lives openly and honestly or you can continue to live in fear. It really is that simple.

I said "simple" -- not "easy". No, it isn't easy. There are consequences either way. That's the point I'm making. *There are consequences either way.* As the quote in my signature says, the ONLY choice you have is whether or not you're gong to be honest and accept those consequences or continue to hide and lie and accept THOSE consequences. That's it. That's the only choice you have.

But it IS a choice.

Thank you MikeW for the extremely thought provoking post. Simply put it is impossible for my partner to consider coming out in the near future. He has no time to think for himself and that is the crux of the problem I feel because as there’s no time for him to consider change there will be no change and therefore we will be in this situation for what could be forever until we can make that step to live together or at least closer together. Since we both live in the suburbs of London (albeit he in the Northwest and I’m in the Southeast) and want to stay here for the time being we have not considered renting a place closer to our work that means our housing situation will not change until either of us can afford to buy our own place. And an even bigger barrier is his religion, right now he feels that he is split between his religion and me. He says his emotions for me are genuine but he feels guilty for them because he has been brought up to regard them as wrong.

I really don’t want to pressure him to consider these things but how I feel is that if he feels that he’s already too busy to consider these things what is going to happen in the next few years where it’s going to be even harder for us to make the time for it.

Work 45 hours a week and see how you feel by the end of month one. If you have never done it you most likely are in for a nasty surprise...

I assure you, the job thing is a lot more draining that most people expect, and is going to make everything else in his life harder to deal with.

He won't have the energy to shower, let alone try to figure out how to proceed with telling his family that he is gay, or balancing out a double life. The 'work ethic' of human society is specifically designed to keep people numb and unable to think and function - everyone gets all wrapped up in their jobs and basing their worth and value as a person on their job that it just totally steals the real purpose of life from folk.



As for coming out and reaching the point where living the lie is just not cutting it - different people have different limits.

Usually (as in most) cases where both are in the closet, one decides to come out before the other, then gets all pissy because the other wants to stay in the safe warm womb of the closet. This leads to arguments and pushing and lots of other ugly that rips a relationship apart from the inside.

Seems to me you are ready to come out, and are now wanting to push him to be were you are. I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.... each of us need to do it in our own time, and work through whatever it is that keeps us in the closet.

Yes, its most likely going to take him longer because he has this job thing taking up a huge chunk of his time and energy.

On the bright side he has a full-time job... which means that he has more opportunity to get out from under his parents.

Now if you had a job as well (for or near full) then the option of roommates opens a lovely door. two people can live as cheaply (and in many cases cheaper) than one person, thus the whole roommates thing has been around since there were rooms to mate in.... or something like that.

Perhaps if you approached it from the POV of how it is you can attain goals, and make it possible for both of you to be out from your respective parents houses (thus no longer living by their rules) then perhaps the whole coming out and living who and what you are becomes possible?

Bowyn Aerrow, I am not saying I don’t understand that it’s tiring, I fully understand that but I feel that life shouldn’t be centred around work. And if I’m the one planning our meetups then there shouldn’t be a problem right? I am not trying to push him to come out I just want to know that he is thinking of these things that will secure our relationship more in the future. I admit I have the easier route of coming out, though saying that I also live in a conservative family, however maybe I just feel more confident that things will smoothen out eventually than he does.

I didn't expect these problems to be as draining for me as they are. When we started this relationship I was still in a state of finding out who I was, trying to figure out things. When he told me he had feelings for me I really didn't know how to react since I had considered him as a best friend. But I wanted to take the chance and see what could happen from it despite knowing all the problems that would arise. We had a long heart to heart about this and even after he wholeheartedly told me that it wasn't going to be easy for him I decided to take the risk. The problem for me is that I don't see there being any change. He still seems as undecided as he was from the start and I don't mean for him to make a decision I just want to know that he is actively trying to clear these things out in his head so that we can either decide to continue on or cut it before we know there's no future. It's incredibly hard for me to live this way and I feel that if I don't see there being potential for there to be change, and I seriously just mean potential not actual change right now, then why do I bother.

For me I feel that my house is now our safe haven because I’m the only one that is living there, that’s why I thought this would be the best place for us to meet. That’s why it was disheartening when he told me he was too tired to plan or come on the weekend.

[Chris]

1. Having conservative christian parents does not necessarily means that they are not going to accept him. My parents are Catholics, every-Sunday-church-goers and I have no problem at all. Even my grandparents were able to understand me being gay so don't overthink as it may be not as terrifying as it seems.

2. Don't let the distance part you. I broke up with my first bf because of the same reason and after a few years of constant dating I realized he was the best one and for the next few years I was looking for something I had from the very beginning.

3. I'm sure there are many gay organizations or support groups in the UK so you both can seek advice and discuss your problems with like-minded people.

4. Ask yourself if you really love each other. If yes then don't give up .

[LJay]

OP, once you are working a regular schedule it will be both easier to understand what is going on and harder to make contact. Being unemployed is really very difficult because you have too much time on your hands and that is rough on your moods. Of course, you both have adjustments to make having gotten out of school where life is very different. Maybe you can work out a way to have regular lunch once a week and some other ways to meet up without tying him up on weekends [hmm........] when his family is likely making demands on his time.

[DawnArmy]

Now if you had a job as well (for or near full) then the option of roommates opens a lovely door. two people can live as cheaply (and in many cases cheaper) than one person, thus the whole roommates thing has been around since there were rooms to mate in.... or something like that.

Most of your posts, I find them not only informative but also funny to read. Thank you.