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Evidence Of "Life After Death"
#21
Jake Wrote:You are quite correct. In fact here's some details and the difference between a clinical death and a biological death (da brain is dead)

Clinical Death:
  1. Stoppage of heart beat, pulse and breathing is called clinical death.
  2. Most organs (eye, kidney) remain alive after clinical death.
  3. These organs are used for transplantation.

Biological Death:
  1. The death caused by degeneration of tissues in brain and other part is called biological death.
  2. Most organs become dead after biological death.
  3. These organs can not be used for organ transplantation.

Those are the only two plausible deaths. Type neardeath in Google and you don't get a definition without experience attached to it. And the result are a bunch of link to fake clinics, fake doctor, Miss Cleo Palm Readers -yeah she can read palmtrees lol

Exactly, so all the hoopla surrounding "life after death" and the sensationalism enveloping this idea is really just for science fiction and the human mind wanting something...more. Wink
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#22
For people who say they experienced life after death two things are always in common.

1. They have pre existing beliefs in life after death

2. They were told they died and were revived.

If patients aren't informed by medical staff after they died and were revived reports of life after death experiences stop.

Want to bet if they stop reviving religious nut jobs reports of life after death will stop?
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#23
Virge Wrote:For people who say they experienced life after death two things are always in common.

1. They have pre existing beliefs in life after death

2. They were told they died and were revived.

If patients aren't informed by medical staff after they died and were revived reports of life after death experiences stop.

Want to bet if they stop reviving religious nut jobs reports of life after death will stop?

Not true. I know someone who had a NDE when he was like 2 years old. As best as I recall his sharing it with me: he was playing "plug" by sticking his mom's keys into an electrical outlet (this would've been early 70s). He doesn't remember screaming which what drew his mom's attention. But he does recall being in the hall and not recognizing himself in the room but recognizing his mother racing in who ran through him (and at that moment he could see in all directions at once) and then his mother shrieking, pulling at her hair, and flipping light switches until giving up on finding the right switch and hitting the one that turned everything off (his mom verified that years later). While his mom rushed in to get him he looked to the glowing fluorescent clock as he was always scared of it (in retrospect he thought it might be glowing eyes in the dark) but he felt no fear. And that's it, though he remembers all that much more vividly than anything else at the time.

And btw, their being told they were revived seems an almost certainty. People don't normally recover from even clinical death on their own. Wink

I don't think everyone who has had was religious, either (I don't see a 2-year-old as religious). But I do know some despair at the thought of life after death because they believe they're going to be sent to Hell for eternity. It's rather sad to see. And I've heard of NDEs that were not religious in any sense (one just involved meeting someone who seemed familiar and he later realized it was his sister, IIRC, who died when he was a little boy, and I don't recall if he had any religious beliefs or not). Likewise, I can't help but remember that some people who claim to remember being someone else in a previous life while a child is not of a religion that accepts reincarnation (though it's much more common in say India, but then kids probably aren't made to shut up about it as they would be in America and may even be encouraged to share, which could encourage fabrication as much as seeming genuine memory).

That said, it is interesting that when they are they're always of the religion of the person, or at least dominant religion in the area.
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#24
Pix Wrote:Not true. I know someone who had a NDE when he was like 2 years old. As best as I recall his sharing it with me: he was playing "plug" by sticking his mom's keys into an electrical outlet (this would've been early 70s). He doesn't remember screaming which what drew his mom's attention. But he does recall being in the hall and not recognizing himself in the room but recognizing his mother racing in who ran through him (and at that moment he could see in all directions at once) and then his mother shrieking, pulling at her hair, and flipping light switches until giving up on finding the right switch and hitting the one that turned everything off (his mom verified that years later). While his mom rushed in to get him he looked to the glowing fluorescent clock as he was always scared of it (in retrospect he thought it might be glowing eyes in the dark) but he felt no fear. And that's it, though he remembers all that much more vividly than anything else at the time.

And btw, their being told they were revived seems an almost certainty. People don't normally recover from even clinical death on their own. Wink

I don't think everyone who has had was religious, either (I don't see a 2-year-old as religious). But I do know some despair at the thought of life after death because they believe they're going to be sent to Hell for eternity. It's rather sad to see. And I've heard of NDEs that were not religious in any sense (one just involved meeting someone who seemed familiar and he later realized it was his sister, IIRC, who died when he was a little boy, and I don't recall if he had any religious beliefs or not). Likewise, I can't help but remember that some people who claim to remember being someone else in a previous life while a child is not of a religion that accepts reincarnation (though it's much more common in say India, but then kids probably aren't made to shut up about it as they would be in America and may even be encouraged to share, which could encourage fabrication as much as seeming genuine memory).

That said, it is interesting that when they are they're always of the religion of the person, or at least dominant religion in the area.

Very interesting Pix, Religion apart, because I'm talking science not religion and I learn better than to provide religion view on this forum LOL, I don't know you and I don't suppose you are a neurologist. If you do know one, please, please go ask them what happens when someone dies. When the brain dies or about to die it immediately release a large amount of serotonin (serotonin is the feel good enzymes released by the brain) it is release in matter of second and in large quantity. That's why someone dying may look in pain but before the brain shuts down they basically are in heaven.

Some research believes that this is that releasing of serotonin by the brain that gives dying people the impression that they are looking at a very bright light. From a religious point of view, one may call it heaven. Some see a light, some sees death relatives if they come back to tell.

I don't want to remove anyone's beliefs, or anything that they've seen or heard by people closed to them that went through a near-death experience. I followed my dad for 8 years when I was young and I have seen it myself. I am married to a pediatrician who have seen it too. But we do not go with the magical part. Near death does exist, but it has been studied and it's still being studied. That you believe in it is fine. But there's already very good studies on how the brain reacts when it's about to shut down and it has been explaining all those images that the person experience. It can be a white light, a dog, your favorite video game. The brain wants you to go in peace. In a near death situation Pix, the person isn't dead Period, there's only two types of death.

Other example of when the brain release serotonin; a Stroke, I suffered a mild one rather young at 32 due to diabetes complication and before I fell on the floor, I did get that famous tingling sensation on my left harm, when I was about to fall it feels like euphoria, like I was stoned, I did not even feel myself falling or hitting the floor. When Alex found me I was unconscious and smiling. That's one powerful drug let me tell you. But, I surely don't want to feel it again, at least not now lol.
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#25
^^

Actually, I'm agnostic. I believe my friend is telling the truth, but that doesn't mean it was what he thought it was. That said, your explanation doesn't fit his experience (witnessing what his mom did in detail that his mom later confirmed), though an explanation isn't limited to "he was outside his body because we are spiritual beings having a physical experience until we die and continue as spiritual beings." I don't buy it was serotonin trying to give him a peaceful death.

And even if he was in a perspective outside his body it doesn't mean that life outside is eternal...could just be a few minutes as far as anyone knows. I have all sorts of ideas of what MAY be the case, but one of the few things I'm sure of is if we retain individuality after death then things have become more complicated rather than "all is well"...and doesn't mean one can't be eaten or die in that other existence, just that things would work differently.

I could also point out that getting the brain to imitate an effect isn't proof that all effects are caused by that process or that it's therefore an illusion...anymore than people able to hear or see for the first time in their life (which has been reported by those experiencing NDEs--that is like someone blind his entire life who got visuals while outside the body--as well as by various aids) means that light and sound are illusory.


Furthermore, I looked up those books from Parnia mentioned earlier, and he would be very knowledgeable on what happens to the body and brain as we die (not sure what exactly he says about NDE experiences, I hope to ILL one of his books soon to find out). Interesting enough, people who get his books for stories of what happens "after the body" have been disappointed by all the medical talk (both medicine and also procedure as the body goes through death, and exploring issues of organ harvesting before passing clinical death). Ironically, the only one that was more...metaphysical...was called a "case study" when it was just ideas for studying it and apparently disappointing to most everyone (and I intend to skip it).
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#26
All I have is my own experience.

I was in a bad car accident, which ended living in LA. I coded three times. If you're going to be picky, clinically dead. Either way I wasn't breathing on my own, my heart stopped beating, and I was not breathing when the EMT's arrived on scene. I had been thrown through the closed t-roof of my room mates Trans Am and kissed the pavement. I will always have the peculiarly question mark shaped scar on the right side of my head where my skull broke and bashed my brain.

They had a devil of a time getting me stabilized, even after I finally made it back to the hospital.

I remember very little of the events that happened before the accident. At best I can vaguely recall that my lover and I had gone up in the mountains to a wealthy neighborhood that had a home modeled after a medieval castle. It was a favorite place of mine. That's my last memory until several weeks later when I "woke up" (being generous here, it took days to start comprehending anything) to find my parents in hospital room and what was left of my mind felt like a cotton ball,

There was no white light, long tunnel, or observing myself on the street. There was that gauzy, vague memory in the mountains, and then nearly a month later the hospital room and nothing in between. That is precisely what I expect will happen when I finally die.
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