Not quite off topic - Form 696

[marshlander]

I am sure there are other musicians on here and there are also people subscribed to this forum who enjoy live music.

I wonder how many of you have heard of Form 696? It is a form that people in 21 London boroughs have to fill in if they want to put on a music event. This form is not for the benefit of the local authority nor for complying with the recently changed and already over-the-top licensing laws. It is an 8-page document required by the Metropolitan Police which "demands that licensees give police a mass of detail, including the names, aliases, private addresses and phone numbers of all musicians and other performers appearing at their venue, and the ethnic background of the likely audience. Failure to comply could mean the loss of a licence or even a fine and imprisonment."

There is a lot of concern among musicians of all kinds that this is yet another step too far into Big Brother territory. There is some concern that this form of further data collection will spread to other police areas. I guess I could be liable to criminal prosecution under these laws, because I frequently operate with community groups and, although I may be leading the music, I don't necessarily have a clue as to the contact details of the performers. Even with my professional musicians I sometimes have to call in deps at short notice. Will promotors be deterred from putting on events because of yet another added burdon of admin? The logical conclusion is that this is another shovel-load of paper with which to bury live music.

As someone in the discussion that follows the report in The Independent said,

"The music industry's live side of business is already having serious problems with having to get a specific licences to host performances even though it's had little financial gain for the smaller venues. This will be the final nail in the coffin for these venues which provide the grass roots to the whole music industry - without which we will only be left with manufactured music as a product not an art.

I am devastated that we live in an age and city which gives billions to wealthy bankers who brought the country to a financial stand still yet our elected representatives see fit to kill off the arts that made the city famous."

I've seen accusations that this expression of concern is a "knee-jerk" reaction to real problems currently facing the police. So, they need to be informed of the ethnic background of the likely audience, eh? Like the record of the Met in dealing fairly with racist incidents leaves us with nothing to worry about! How can having a database of performers help the police locate some knife-wielding or gun-toting lunatic in an audience? It's just barmy. When are we going to have the guts to say, "Stop!"

I don't know how effective the on-line petitions are, but there is one on this subject Petition to: Scrap the unnecessary and draconian usage of the 696 Form from London music events. | Number10.gov.uk

Spread the news, people.

Thanks.

[sweetlad86]

Thats totally unfair, how can they ask us to give info about the artists and the audience!

I feel really sad that I missed the free music festivals of the 70's and 80's and the raves of the 80's.

I have a really horrible feeling the government is starting to take control the moments of people around the UK. How can we live like this??

I think so we wont be able to stop them doing this because we cant as the people get bigger enough groups to gather to defend are rights.

The law has change recently on protesting, so now you have to do a very similar form as form 696, which I think is really strange..

[fjp999]

I wonder how many of you have heard of Form 696? It is a form that people in 21 London boroughs have to fill in if they want to put on a music event. This form is not for the benefit of the local authority nor for complying with the recently changed and already over-the-top licensing laws. It is an 8-page document required by the Metropolitan Police which "demands that licensees give police a mass of detail, including the names, aliases, private addresses and phone numbers of all musicians and other performers appearing at their venue, and the ethnic background of the likely audience. Failure to comply could mean the loss of a licence or even a fine and imprisonment."

I guess I could be liable to criminal prosecution under these laws, because I frequently operate with community groups and, although I may be leading the music, I don't necessarily have a clue as to the contact details of the performers. Even with my professional musicians I sometimes have to call in deps at short notice. Will promotors be deterred from putting on events because of yet another added burdon of admin?

very curious... was there some sort of event that brought on this new Form?

Do the police have that much time to check all the data this Form will generate?

I really dont understand this at all???

When I lived in SF there was some attempt to close a famous gay club due to drug use inside the club... but a large protest was started and the coppers backed down real quick...

[marshlander]

very curious... was there some sort of event that brought on this new Form?

Do the police have that much time to check all the data this Form will generate?

I really dont understand this at all???

When I lived in SF there was some attempt to close a famous gay club due to drug use inside the club... but a large protest was started and the coppers backed down real quick...

The police claim it is to do with increased incidences of gun and knife crime. I don't see how the licensee filling in a form will make any difference. One might have thought they had more succinct kinds of intelligence!

I doubt very much that police officers will have the time to check the data without detracting from duties of more interest to the public. However, there are a lot of civilian admin people working for the force, I believe. The more likely effect will be to deter someone from attempting to put on a show. Not that there aren't already enough disincentives in terms of local authority licenses, public liability insurance, health and safety risk assessments, portable appliance testing certificate checks etc etc etc

Can't see the police backing down on this unless they are forced to by Parliament. They are acting power crazy at the moment. Presumably you've heard about the arrest a few days ago of a Tory MP simply for being the recipient of information in the course of his duty?!!!

National compulsory DNA databases, biometric identity cards, detention without charge for terrorism suspects, the extension of time that that suspects may be held pre-trial, the imposition of control orders, anti-social behaviour orders (which often lead to criminalising people for civil offences), most frequently used incidence of electronic surveillance in Europe (possibly in the so-called free world?), a succession of acts of parliament (including the Terrorism Acts of 2000 and 2006 and the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act of 2005) restricting the rights to free speech, changes to extradition law (including co-operation with states operating the disgusting practice of extraordinary rendition), the impending logging of all telephone calls and e-mail messages to a central database, even radio frequency identification tagging on everyday products... the last eight years have been very busy putting all the machinery in place for a totalitarian regime to walk right in. Whilst perhaps insignificant in comparison with some of these more fundamental changes to the ways we have regarded ourselves as a nation Form 696 is a part of a picture where one can envisage the eventual centralisation of personal information on a scale hitherto only practised by the Stasi.

Orwell's picture of society in 1984 generally focusses on the protagonist, Winston Smith, or on the excesses of the ruling elite. However, I think his description of a proletariat so engaged in coping with poverty, befuddled by drink and preoccupied with sex that they took no thought to challenge the state that suppressed individuality through over-legislation, micro-control, fear and torture is also worryingly prophetic.

Sorry, but I don't feel any better at all after that rant :mad:

[fjp999]

The police claim it is to do with increased incidences of gun and knife crime. I don't see how the licensee filling in a form will make any difference. One might have thought they had more succinct kinds of intelligence!

So, marsh, what instrument ya carrying, gun or knife

National compulsory DNA databases, biometric identity cards, detention without trial for terrorist suspects, the extension of time that that suspects may be held pre-trial, the imposition of control orders, anti-social behaviour orders (which often lead to criminalising people for civil offences), most frequently used incidence of electronic surveillance in Europe (possibly in the so-called free world?), a succession of acts of parliament (including the Terrorism Acts of 2000 and 2006 and the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act of 2005) restricting the rights to free speech, changes to extradition law (including co-operation with states operating the disgusting practice of extraordinary rendition), the impending logging of all telephone calls and e-mail messages to a central database, even radio frequency identification tagging on everyday products... the last eight years have been very busy putting all the machinery in place for a totalitarian regime to walk right in. Whilst perhaps insignificant in comparison with some of these more fundamental changes to the ways we have regarded ourselves as a nation Form 696 is a part of a picture where one can envisage the eventual centralisation of personal information on a scale hitherto only practised by the Stasi.[/QUOTE]

We, USA, is so lucky to have some sanity come in January. One of the first pieces of business, reported in the first few days after the WIN was that our president elect will be rolling back MANY MANY MANY of the laws of OUR DEAR LEADER, many that resemble the above list... They are talking about having a desk next to the swearing in podium where Obama can go over and take off the books many of the last admins laws. YEAH America! Free again, LOL.

Sorry, but I don't feel any better at all after that rant :mad:[/QUOTE]

[marshlander]

So, marsh, what instrument ya carrying, gun or knife

This guitar kills fascists ...?

[fredv3b]

National compulsory DNA databases, biometric identity cards, detention without trial for terrorist suspects, the extension of time that that suspects may be held pre-trial, the imposition of control orders, anti-social behaviour orders (which often lead to criminalising people for civil offences), most frequently used incidence of electronic surveillance in Europe (possibly in the so-called free world?), a succession of acts of parliament (including the Terrorism Acts of 2000 and 2006 and the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act of 2005) restricting the rights to free speech, changes to extradition law (including co-operation with states operating the disgusting practice of extraordinary rendition), the impending logging of all telephone calls and e-mail messages to a central database, even radio frequency identification tagging on everyday products... the last eight years have been very busy putting all the machinery in place for a totalitarian regime to walk right in. Whilst perhaps insignificant in comparison with some of these more fundamental changes to the ways we have regarded ourselves as a nation Form 696 is a part of a picture where one can envisage the eventual centralisation of personal information on a scale hitherto only practised by the Stasi.

Apologies but I have a nitpick here, the issue is not so much detention without trial for terrorism suspects, its detention without charge. But you are right we have a Parliament (certainly a House of Commons) that will pass almost any security legislation.

We, USA, is so lucky to have some sanity come in January. One of the first pieces of business, reported in the first few days after the WIN was that our president elect will be rolling back MANY MANY MANY of the laws of OUR DEAR LEADER, many that resemble the above list... They are talking about having a desk next to the swearing in podium where Obama can go over and take off the books many of the last admins laws. YEAH America! Free again, LOL.

Presidents do not pass laws (Executive Orders excepted), Congress does. GW Jnr may have been in favour of these laws, but it took Congress to pass them, it will take Congress to repeal them. Marshlander lists many lamentable recent UK laws but at least we did not try to restrict Habeus Corpus!

[fjp999]

Presidents do not pass laws (Executive Orders excepted), Congress does. GW Jnr may have been in favour of these laws, but it took Congress to pass them, it will take Congress to repeal them. Marshlander lists many lamentable recent UK laws but at least we did not try to restrict Habeus Corpus!

Thank you fred, I did mean Executive Orders. It is expected that Our Dear Leader will be passing a whole big group before leaving office...

[fredv3b]

Thank you fred, I did mean Executive Orders. It is expected that Our Dear Leader will be passing a whole big group before leaving office...

But in fairness that there is a clear tradition of signing a variety of Executive Orders just before leaving office. Clinton pardoned his own Brother.

[marshlander]

Apologies but I have a nitpick here, the issue is not so much detention without trial for terrorism suspects, its detention without charge.

Thanks, you are correct, of course. I thought I'd re-read so carefully :redface: