Bitterness on Gay Speak

[ShiftyNJ]

I like the ani difranco song "As Is" especially the verse:

Just give up
And admit you're an asshole
You would be
In some good company
I think you'd find
That your friends would forgive you
Or maybe I
Am just speaking for me"

[Bhp91126]

I want to chime in on the 'never fight' meme from East and PA. Ron and I never fight either. When we screw up we own it and are forgiven. We trust each other not to make mistakes on purpose or to hurt the other.

And, yes, I also thought that we were weird for never fighting.

[Iceblink]

Like others, I have not seen people here condoning cheating and saying it is okay. Maybe we are not angrily calling out the cheating, but the threads started about cheating are almost always by the person that has been cheated on, not the cheater. They do not need us convincing them that cheating is wrong. They already know that and are hurt and that is why they have started the thread. They are here seeking advice and seeking some comfort and compassion. There is also a reason many of us did not call out cheating in the thread about forgiveness, that is because it was not a thread about cheating. The OP never mentioned cheating. Cheating had some mention in thread because at the time the thread was sharing the front page with a thread about cheating, but that is not what the thread was about. But concerning forgiving cheating- so what if it is not something you would forgive? Everyone can make their own choices and the choices do not have to be first approved by your standards.

But this is the real crap that gets me, Barry:

and if you are inviting other people into your relationship then you shouldn't be together in the first place. You should just remain single and go fuck whoever you want. it bothers me because so many people in the world accuse gay people of not having "real" relationships or "real" marriages, and reading so many post on this forum condoning this kind of behavior makes me realize why they say that. If we are ever going to progress and be taken seriously, we, meaning all of the gay community, are going to have to get our shit together and honestly, grow up a little, learn to commit, and realize that even though we are gay, true love still exists.----Barry

So what if a couple wants to invite someone into their bed? It is their life and it affects them, not you. If they have an open relationship, that is their choice. If they have a three way relationship, that is their choice. You know what other people in this world get judged by the type of relationships they are in? And before you say it is affecting you because others are are not taking gay people seriously and saying gay people are not having "real" relationships or "real" marriages, the problem is not the couples who play together, the couples in open relationships, or those in three way relationships, the problem is the judgmental bigots who crowned themselves morally superior and believe everyone else should be only in the type of relationship they are in or else should just remain single. If the legitimacy of a relationship is based on how others view it, on whether others believe it is morally okay, then perhaps you better look at your own relationship because there are many people out there that do not approve.

And so when you say this, forgive me if I do not believe it:

I truly do not believe that I come off acting like I am better or superior to anyone. This is my take on what I have seen and nothing more. I was in no way trying to say anyone's relationship is right or wrong.....perhaps just not for me. I feel like a lot of the bitterness I have seen on this site comes from the men having been cheated on. I said that I myself have been cheated on, and to call me conservative just goes to show that no one on here knows me that well. Lol I was trying to talk about the overall bitterness in general that I have in fact encountered on this site....such as, the harshness of replies and what I feel in most cases, could be harmful advice. I do not feel that my initial thread is bitter at all, but if that's the way it is to be taken, then so be it. And no, how someone lives their lives doesn't affect my relationship whatsoever, but I do believe how someone lives their lives affects them and how they view the world. Being hurt can change your outlook if you let it. ----Barry

Are some people, if not most, bitter after they've cheated on? Of course they are, but that is understandable. They've been treated poorly and their trust has been broken, but the bitterness they might feel, and with time will probably get over, is not why you started this thread. The purpose of this thread was to call out people who gave advice different than what you would give and people who are in a different kind of relationship than what you approve of. Go back and read your original post. It's all there. You could not even escape mentioning it in this clarification. If we do not agree with the advice someone has given in a thread, we discuss why we do not think it is good advice, but we don't call out people for simply having given the advice.

You might read this post as me not being respectful to you, and you might be correct, but frankly, I feel you have treated people here with disrespect. If you want to be treated with respect, treat others with the same respect you want to be treated with. You can't say "if you are inviting other people into your relationship then you shouldn't be together in the first place," and then say "I was in no way trying to say anyone's relationship is right or wrong." It is not much different than the "I don't have anything against gays, BUT..." or "I'm in no way racist, BUT..." lines we hear so often.

[ShiftyNJ]

We really don't fight either. We did a little in the first few years, but now we know each other's buttons and we deal with enough crap out in the world that we try not to bring it home. We've been through some heavy shit too, so that may keep the day to day BS in perspective.

[East]

I want to chime in on the 'never fight' meme from East and PA. Ron and I never fight either. When we screw up we own it and are forgiven. We trust each other not to make mistakes on purpose or to hurt the other.

And, yes, I also thought that we were weird for never fighting.

Trust...yeah...good point. Same here...we have a complete trust for each other and also we both know neither would do anything to intentionally harm the other...

We had a joke about this years ago...I said to him that I think someone slipped me a fucking Mary Sunshine pill when I wasn't paying attention....

It isn't as if I am that mellow with everyone...I can be a pit bull when I need to be....so I was actually surprised at the way our chemistry worked and how easy and natural it was for me to get along with him...

We have arguments....sure...but they aren't really fights and when we are done...we are done....

[meridannight]

But the lightbulb moment...we both have this quality...we easily forgive each other and we both easily own our shit...which is WHY it is easy to forgive.

I also have this "thing" where if you are "sorry" about something...no need to apologize...just tell me WHY you are sorry...and I am cool....

I also truly "let it go" afterward...I can't think of a single resentment I have at the moment ...

same here. i've been this way ever since i can remember. with lovers, partners, friends.... i was still in 5th or 6th grade or somewhere when i first noticed this difference between how i went about it and how most of other people around me went about it. i saw them hold grudges over things that wouldn't even have gotten me mad, not to mention worse stuff. and sometimes i got asked why i didn't get pissed off at that. and i have no answer to this day, other than it just doesn't happen.

so, a lot of pressure gets taken off, when you simply are not that ''trigger-happy'' as far as anger is concerned. but i guess that's different for different individuals.

the other part, i've observed, is when you do get angry, to understand that it's your reaction to something that has already happened. and no matter how pissed off you are, no matter how long you hold onto it, it won't get erased from having taken place. so, your only option, as things stand, is to acknowledge whether it's something you can accept or not. in case of romantic relationships, that usually translates into either forgiving or breaking up (abruptly or gradually). i've always known this, and i've always known what i can live with and what i can't. so, i'm usually pretty straightforward to interact with, if not always easy though. as a consequence, my relationships (any kind) have, to this day, been stress-free, even though i am not always easy to get along with.

and i can't control my anger in the first place. it's an instantaneous, short-term reaction in most cases, and once it's gone it's gone. i no longer feel it. i've never felt long-term anger/hate/resentment, and i have no idea what it's like.

[trywait]

yes. it is definitely all about communication!. however, it is not only speaking and hearing but actually listening to what the other person has to say as well. it works wonders when you not only TALK to one another but also care to LISTEN to the other person as well....and the two people in the relationship that matter the most. everyone else is just an outsider looking in.

you can give advice when it's asked for but don't give unsolicited advice either! stop being niele and myob...

aloha pumehana

[East]

same here. i've been this way ever since i can remember. with lovers, partners, friends.... i was still in 5th or 6th grade or somewhere when i first noticed this difference between how i went about it and how most of other people around me went about it. i saw them hold grudges over things that wouldn't even have gotten me mad, not to mention worse stuff. and sometimes i got asked why i didn't get pissed off at that. and i have no answer to this day, other than it just doesn't happen.

so, a lot of pressure gets taken off, when you simply are not that ''trigger-happy'' as far as anger is concerned. but i guess that's different for different individuals.

the other part, i've observed, is when you do get angry, to understand that it's your reaction to something that has already happened. and no matter how pissed off you are, no matter how long you hold onto it, it won't get erased from having taken place. so, your only option, as things stand, is to acknowledge whether it's something you can accept or not. in case of romantic relationships, that usually translates into either forgiving or breaking up (abruptly or gradually). i've always known this, and i've always known what i can live with and what i can't. so, i'm usually pretty straightforward to interact with, if not always easy though. as a consequence, my relationships (any kind) have, to this day, been stress-free, even though i am not always easy to get along with.

and i can't control my anger in the first place. it's an instantaneous, short-term reaction in most cases, and once it's gone it's gone. i no longer feel it. i've never felt long-term anger/hate/resentment, and i have no idea what it's like.

I have good friends that are alot like you meridan..and I easily get along with them, I appreciate the straightforward approach and I am not easily offended....

I have felt long term anger/rage/resentment but I have worked really hard to let go of it and leave it in the past.....I always want to think I am "there" already...and I am maybe 90% there...but still...more work to do ....

There are three things I never feel and are kinda foreign to me.... jealousy, envy and boredom....

Sometimes I will say "I am jealous or envious" about something frivolous...but it is because I don't know what other words to use. My actual feelings are that I am happy for other people when they are lucky or have good things happen or get to do something cool....

As for boredom...way too many things interest me and I will be dead before I run out of stuff...I (almost) got bored when I used to hear gay men tearing other people apart for the way they looked...I get a bit skeeved out and I feel dirty just listening to them...but you get that alot in a gay bar and it is part of the landscape so I learned how to navigate people away from that nonsense...

[ShiftyNJ]

i've never felt long-term anger/hate/resentment, and i have no idea what it's like.

You're better off. Chances are, the other person has long since moved on if you continue to live in resentment, you're in a prison of your own making.

[Bhp91126]

You guys are the sweetest on here - not even a hint of bitterness.

Group hug