Silly Overly Self Conscious Topic

[Cobalt]

So I've been debating doing this topic for a while but I figured oh well, forget it, I'll just make it and see what happens (putting "silly" in the topic is always a disclaimer in my book).

For as long as I can remember I've always had this drive to not leave traces of myself any where (I was probably a spy in a former life, honestly). I remember in school being upset that I was pictured/named in year books and the like and didn't want that. I was uncomfortable knowing people could look me up years from then and there was evidence that I "existed". I wanted to go through life never leaving any sort of trace. Online forums/sites also bothered me. I got self conscious over how my posts would live "forever" and favored sites where posts would roll off after a while. I never wanted to post anything too personal because I never wanted it to tied back to me. Now, this isn't even about people using it against me or anything, just the idea of it being somewhat "permanent" bothered me.

Admittedly, this sounds seriously stupid (even I raise eyebrows when I think it over really). I know it really doesn't matter and it's just the nature of being online. Don't post anything you wouldn't want made public/ don't post anything you wouldn't want to linger for years to come/ etc. I get all that, definitely. But I still have trouble with the concept. Mostly with online communities I'll join to participate in discussions but I hardly ever will start them because of that "dude, it's going to be on the internet forEVER and your name (well, screen name) is attached to it, too scary!" thought creeps in an kind of kills it.

Actually, now that I posted all this...I have no idea what I was expecting really. I don't know if I'm seeking advice or if just the act of posting my ridiculous thoughts was really the only thing I wanted to do. Just doing that doesn't really make it seem like such a big deal anymore I guess. I guess what my big problem is really is self consciousness in general. I often second guess myself or think twice before I speak. I usually spend a lot of time observing before I speak, mostly because I want to understand a situation before I enter it, the other half being I don't believe I have anything of value to contribute. Yet when I do speak, others tell me I add a lot to a conversation/what was said was profound. I guess to sum it, from what I'm told: I don't say much but what I do say matters. So I try and force myself to just talk even if I don't feel comfortable and hope for the best.

Considering this topic has taken a turn into an "I have no idea what I'm doing" land I'll end it with a question. Have you ever had to work through being too self conscious? What do/did you do to work through it? Just doing it (you know, like Nike) works for me I suppose but sometimes it's not enough.

(Note: I didn't bother to spell check/grammar check this train wreck of a post because I felt that would be a way to delay the post and/or probably end up deleting the whole thing and undoing any headway I was going to make. Sorry apologies for any mistakes I made.)

[Jettalove]

There's something really great to be said about challenging yourself to leave your comfort zone regularly. I find that when I push myself to do that, I almost always have something positive that comes out of it. Just Do It is a motto I quote often

I'm an explorer I guess- I want to see and experience all that life has to offer. I find I no longer feel much of the self-consciousness I used to have - which means sometimes I say and do things that might be a little too much in certain situations, but I'd rather have that then spend my life being afraid to be myself. I find that the more I put myself out there, the more I have come back to me. In my sig you'll see my favorite saying, "trust is the secret to adventure." If you trust in the moment, and trust yourself, you'll have more adventure in your life than you know what to do with.

Part of what has helped me with that was realizing that others opinions' of me don't matter, aren't my business, and don't affect me and who I am. I like the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. Don't Take Anything Personally, Don't Make Assumptions are two agreements that I really try to live by. As a counselor, I see that when people don't abide by those two especially, it can really mess with their lives in a bad way.

That said, I can see why you might like being able to "disappear", especially if you're still figuring out who you really are. The thing is though, life is a journey and people change and grow constantly. Hopefully people won't "hold you to" a particular way of being, since opinions and personal convictions can be very fluid. I think it would be terrible to be a celebrity with people quoting you from years ago, when you might have been a completely different person back then. Sometimes the world can be very unforgiving. But, when you decide you don't care what people think, because they will never completely know the "true you" anyway, it is really freeing.

(I'm kind of chatty tonight )

[Jettalove]

Wow I wrote that whole answer and just realized that there actually are several areas of my life that I definitely do keep private, for reasons that I won't go into here.

Just keepin' it real.

Life is complicated, isn't it.

[Steve]

I have these same feelings all the time Cobalt, although probably for very different reasons. All through high school I think I wanted to be invisible. Ironically the only times I believe I actually felt invisible occurred onstage in front of large audiences when I was so deeply immersed in a character role that I could lose myself entirely. From that perspective there's something to be said about being blinded in a spotlight while divorcing as much of your personality as possible from reality.

Paranoia about what I've said and how I've said it is something I live with (and over examine) non stop. I keep myself awake, usually in horror, wishing I could erase bits of the physical debris that come with living: photos, recordings, things I've written, pictures I've posted, etc. Feeling self conscious about myself follows me everywhere. Even when I'm thinking clearly and I realize how silly my thoughts and reactions have been, on some level the feelings persist.

Even if our reasons for such thinking come from very different places, I get how you feel. Coming from me that probably shouldn't reassure you at all. I'm heavily medicated with emotions that supernova if someone farts the wrong way. For what it's worth, no matter the origin or intensity of the feeling I don't believe either of us are alone.

xx

[Steve]

[MENTION=22930]Jettalove[/MENTION] Those were pretty great posts Jetta. Well done.

[MikeW]

...For as long as I can remember I've always had this drive to not leave traces of myself any where (I was probably a spy in a former life, honestly). I remember in school being upset that I was pictured/named in year books and the like and didn't want that. I was uncomfortable knowing people could look me up years from then and there was evidence that I "existed". ....

You know, actually I can kind of relate to this. I don't know if this is true for you, but I was a very "strange" kid growing up. There was just SO MUCH going on inside my head (and still is even now, just different), that, to me, it was like (and in many ways still is like) I'm from another planet or something. So much of the stuff that interests most other humans just doesn't interest me; the way I look at things and think about things is very different, too. The specific of not wanting my picture in the year book? Yeah... I had that.

In fact when I was in high school I remember we had to give written permission to be depicted in the book and I refused to give my permission. No on else that I know of did that (It was a big school and this was over half a century ago). And I felt very much the same way... which is very odd, for example, considering that even as a teenager I was (and still am) an artist. I didn't mind making things, photographs, prints, paintings, sculpture, jewelry, w/e; but I didn't want my name associated with it. I felt like the THING should exist on its own, that I was just sort of an "instrument" through which the "thing" came into existence. It wasn't "mine" (exactly) and, even if it were made through my thoughts, feelings and actions, somehow it should have its own existence independent of me. In fact, it was as if I didn't exist at all. Sort of.

When I think of humankind's place in the humogauniverse that science knows about (or thinks it does), it's clear to me that *from its point of view we do NOT exist*. Like, the whole of human history (only about a quarter or less of which has come down to us as "history" at all) is just a teeny tiny sliver of the whole humongous amount of time that has and ever will exist. Such avery thin, fine, minuscule slice that, really, the whole of it is *nothing*. Within that, the life of an individual, I mean, seriously, it doesn't even begin to exist.

ON THE OTHER HAND, from our individual subjective points of view, it is kind of the other way around. (And this, to me, is just SO strange.) From OUR pov, the universe only exists *because we are aware of it*. If we or creatures like us didn't exist, then it might very well "exist" but it would not and could not be *known*... and, so, from a purely existential perspective, would have no real existence at all.

SO, when you get right down to it, who -- or perhaps more to the point -- WHAT are we? I've thought several times of starting a thread asking the question: "WHAT do you think you are?" (Not who, WHAT.)

I'm fairly convinced that we have NO IDEA. We think we're human beings and who could argue with that, eh? Who in their right mind would even want to? But "human being" is just word/concept WE made up. Our whole understanding of where we came from, how we got to be here where we are, is a mostly "made up" story. This "his-story" is based on stuff that was left behind from previous generations. But the further you go back, the deeper into the soil you have to dig to find the remnants, the "sketchier" and more "fanciful" our knowledge of it all gets. We *know* human beings anatomically no different from ourselves have been around on this planet for at least 100,000 years... but where, *exactly*, we came from isn't totally clear. Sure, we have primate genes; sure we have bodies that have come from that "trunk" of the evolutionary tree. But there are a lot of missing chunks that have been filled in by conjecture rather than solid factual knowledge. And that's just the "evolutionary" part of the picture.

Even the ancient pre-history is so sketchy, we really don't know much of anything beyond conjecture going back beyond, what, 40,000 years or so? I mean basically ZERO. How *weird* is that. Think of it... we know humans just like us existed back before then but we know next to nothing about them AT ALL.

So, what do we think we are? All this ^^^ is just the product of thought. But what is "thought"? How is it that I have this "imaginary" *self* inside my head that talks to me and speaks to me in words? Words that I then speak or type out in some forum for other "imaginary selves" to read?

For us humans, apparently, it is all about words -- and words are just simulations, sings and symbols, codifications... that our minds have been trained to associate with an equally "imaginary" knowledge. We THINK we know who, what, when, where we are. We *assume* these thoughts we have are "accurate". They build up a picture of the world and ourselves in it. This is what we DO... more than anything else. We CREATE a world-view inside our heads from which we then create "things" (everything) that fills out human culture and the human experience.

If we take a wild guess and say that humans jus like us have been here for 150,000 years, and if one generation = 20 years, then there have been about 7,500 generations of us. Now, only 2,000 generations of that (more or less) comprise what we think of as "history" (since the 'new stone age'). But, it has only been 25 generations since Copernicus figured out that earth is going around the sun (something we take for granted as knowing). And its only been about 7 generations since electricity was harnessed for our use. And this is what has happened in the past 12 thousand years:



Our truly ancient ancestors left ALMOST NO TRACE of themselves. Everything they did, said, thought, felt... we know NOTHING about it. Zero. We *assume* they were so fucking primitive they weren't much different from apes. But how can that be? If they were as "human" as we are, how is that even conceivable?

But more to the point, with the advent of so-called "civilization" (yeah, that's around the 3,ooo BCE point on the graph)... and the creation of farming and social organization and ALL the codifications of everything around us that go in o "language" and the "thoughts" that are associated with it, look what's happened! We are now having SUCH an impact on the earth that there is serious (and truly serious) concern for the whole future of humankind. What the fuck do we think we're dong? What the fuck ARE we doing, really? Why are we here doing this? Why are we transforming this beautiful planet that has been going right along minding its own business for billions of years (apparently) into a humongous garbage dump?

I'm appalled how much RUBBISH I generate every week! It is astounding. I try not to do it and I do recycle but OMFG I can't believe how much PACKAGING of food and other things I have to discard EVERY WEEK. And that's just tiny, little old, relatively conservative "me"!

Or is that not the way to look at this at all? Maybe we should be looking only at our achievements, what we actually CREATE with our time and energy... which, you have to admit, is rather astounding. Like, if we could go back and take one of our truly ancient ancestors (again, no different from ourselves) and drop them in the 21st century with our trains, planes, jets, handheld devices... where the hell do you think they'd think they were? What the hell could they possibly "make" of it? For sure, they'd be scared shitless; for sure once they began to get used to it they might find it fascinating. BUT I bet anything their first instinct would be to GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE as fast as possible!

Good morning everyone! Now I have to go to work.

[Cobalt]

Well I'm impressed with the detailed responses and pleased to know I'm not the only one.

Jetta: Thanks a lot for your insight and I agree with a lot you have said. I totally understand the concept of no risk no reward, I suppose my problem can sometimes be just getting pushed over that hump but I have to say in less than 24 hours I don't feel the same way I did. Maybe I'm just realizing (again) what I keep re-realizing. Every time I re-learn this lesson I forget why I bothered to forget it in the first place. I like hearing about the book you mentioned...I may pick it up.
I also understand that there are things that should actually be kept private. Those areas exist for everyone (or most people I guess) to some extent or another. In a book I am reading now it talks about shame and owning your story. It discusses how when you try to avoid talking about your shame/what keeps you quiet you effectively make things worse. Introducing humility is what frees you inside. By being vulnerable only then can you contribute wholly.

Steve: I'm pleased to know you can identify with me, and I agree with a lot of what you have said. I get nervous when I realize I appear in a picture and/or am recorded in some way. My brother is on the home page of his previous college's website. When I found out about that I was so glad I never had to be put in a position like that, I would have melted in embarrassment. To reference the book I'm reading one more time, the author said a sentence like: who do you think you are trying to contribute your art/writings/ideas/etc. out into the world? That sentence (though I botched what it actually said) clicked with me 100%. I've been told countless times by teachers/friends/family that I have a gift for writing yet never really considered doing anything with it because I told myself "you are not good enough" or "you can't begin to do anything note worthy no matter what". To be able to erase everything I've ever done or have been a part of to me is like a safety net. If I fail (or succeed) it wouldn't matter, I could wash it all away.

Mike: I've lived sort of a different life from what most people would consider normal (at least in this country). I struggled with depressions and anxiety since early childhood, never hung out with friends much at all (and I mean that honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I hung out with friends from ages 9-19). I always felt very different from others. I think that's why I got the urge to disappear in the first place. I didn't feel like I belonged here (where "here" is I'm not sure, at school or at home or on this planet, I don't know) so I didn't want to be remembered like I was. I guess it's the same idea as going to an astronauts convention and signing the guest book. I'm not an astronaut, I don't belong at a meeting place for one, and I sure as hell shouldn't be leaving evidence of my being there.
One thing you've said that for whatever reason really just struck a chord with me was putting the timeline of life and the universe together. 90 billion years from now I don't really think it's going to matter if I made a topic about desiring to have sex with a pumpkin (I assure everyone this is definitely not the case, I just wanted to say something outlandish and that sounded great in my head) it really won't matter, there wouldn't be a shred of evidence of it in the first place. Maybe four hundred years from now there possibly could...but I'd be long gone and again, it doesn't really matter when I put it into perspective.
All I should really care about it is how I feel. At the end of the day, if you do nothing or contribute nothing, you go to bed the same way you woke up. I'll probably have to force myself to contribute and open up for years to come (it's a problem that definitely doesn't stop here online, this extends into my personal/"real life" as well) and it's going to suck for being so uncomfortable and hard. But I remind myself that you only get back what you put out. Saying nothing fetches nothing.

I'll probably double post in a few minutes (such bad forum etiquette of me, I apologize) once I think of new things to add/ whatever hasn't been said already.

[Virge]

I read it and think I understand what you're saying but can't relate to it on a personal level. That's just differences in personality and life experiences. For me everyday is a adventure in making as big a good, lasting impression as I can on people. It's like a Ponzi scheme based in happiness instead of a get rich scheme. So far the FBI and the SEC haven't caught in and tried to close in on me.

Like I said, it's just a matter of personalities and life experiences that make you who you are and me who I am. It also has a lot to do with how we face challenges and adversities, too. I don't mind talking about mine because when I do I'm trying to teach something to others, not squeeze sympathy or anything else out of them.

If you ended up stuck here at the house for a few days I'd be ethically compelled to infect you with a new outlook.

[Cobalt]

I'm slowly learning to be more open. I'm an observer more than an explorer. My problem is finding where to draw the line between research/observing and acting/contributing. I get trapped in the pattern of second guessing and judging my actions to the point of inaction and silence. Whenever I do contribute I scrutinize and critique and decide whatever I did wasn't good enough. But the thing that seems to work is when I do so much at once that it becomes impossible to take back or retrace my steps. Sort of like entering a room with a bunch of people and saying nothing to anyone, then all of a sudden deciding to say several things to as many people as you can find. After a while it isn't new anymore to do something when you've done is so frequently. You have failures sure, but then there's successes to. You learn from what didn't work before and build on what does.

Part of my problem is being a perfectionist. I don't want to do/say something until it is "perfect" when I know in my heart that perfect just doesn't exist. So I'm still learning to push my own boundaries and realize that I'm good enough as is. No one but me can tell me otherwise.