Religious Belief Licence To Discriminate

[Steve]

She's in jail where she deserves to be.

Best part is, that by not issuing the licenses, she's breaking her religious code.

She classifies herself as an Apostolic Catholic.

If you search for information about that, you'll find a site which lists Lifestyle, Doctrine, and then Statement of Faith.

Item #17 on that Statement of Faith is "Governmental authority is respected and obeyed...."

Yes! Took the words out of my mouth Chuck. Well done.

I haven't been able to get to the Morehead location of the Solid Rock Apostolic Church (the one located in Rowan County), because it seems the server for that particular church is mysteriously not responding. Instead I went to the Kentucky District Office Page in Richmond Kentucky. My reasoning was that a district church should have the same sort of Statement of Faith. Jesus Christ Apostolic Ministries International

At this site they haven't numbered the bullet points. It was still easy to figure out exactly what should have been listed:

CIVIL GOVERNMENT

All civil magistrates are ordained of God for peace, safety, and the welfare of all people (Romans 13:1-10; Titus 3:1,2; I Peter 2:13,14); therefore, it is our duty to be in obedience to all requirements of the law that are not contrary to the Word of God and that do not force one to the violation of the sixth commandment by bearing arms. It is our duty to honor without murmuring (Matthew 17:24-27; 22:17-21) and show respect to them in all lawful requirements of the civil government.

-------------------Jesus Christ Apostolic Ministries International

The site underlined that bit about "...therefore, it is our duty to be in obedience to all requirements of the law that are not contrary to the Word of God...", not me. It's a convenient way to tell people that if they don't like a particular law they don't have to obey it.

I especially love that the church specifically adds that members don't have to obey laws "...that do not force one to the violation of the sixth commandment by bearing arms...". Positively priceless.

Jail time wasn't one of the objectives of the plaintiffs for Kim Davis. That was all on the judge.

American Civil liberties Union attorneys argued in a motion filed Monday that Davis "continues to collect compensation from the Commonwealth for duties she fails to perform."

They said they didn't want her to be jailed as punishment, but rather, the attorneys asked the court to "impose financial penalties sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous" to make her comply with the court order.

(Judge) Bunning, however, apparently felt she deserved jail time, but he also told Davis she could end her incarceration by complying with the Supreme Court order and telling her deputy clerks to do the same.

He said he didn't believe fining Davis would convince her to comply with the high court ruling, especially considering that Davis had testified earlier that her supporters are raising funds for her and calling her office to offer financial support, WKYT reported.
----------------Kentucky clerk stays in jail

Davis and her attorney's wanted the governor, Steve Beshear, to step in and simply remove her name from the marriage licenses, which might have been a good work around for the issue. Even the Kentucky Senate president (that state's terminology) and the House speaker both jumped on board this band wagon.

Senate President Robert Stivers ® and House Speaker Greg Stumbo (D) have said Beshear could call a special legislative session where lawmakers could amend state law so that clerks would no longer issue marriage licenses, but merely record them. Stivers has also said he believes Beshear could make that same change by executive order.

----------------The Courier Journal: Beshear: Decision on Kim Davis 'speaks for itself'

The problem with that scenario seems to be that Davis and her attorney are willing to spend a great deal of their state's coffer's to accommodate Davis' belief system. Get this:

But Beshear said Thursday that the legislature has given county clerks the legal authority to issue marriage licenses, and as governor he has no authority to relieve them of their duty by executive order.

And — repeating what he has said for several weeks — Beshear said, "The General Assembly will convene in just four months and can make any statutory changes it deems necessary at that time. I see no need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers' money calling a special session of the General Assembly when 117 and 120 county clerks are doing their jobs."

-----------------------The Courier Journal: Beshear: Decision on Kim Davis 'speaks for itself'

Since Davis is an elected official the state seal bearing her signature should be on all official Kentucky legal documents provided to the public. As an elected official she cannot by fired, only impeached, or resign. So far Davis is unwilling to do either.

Late yesterday afternoon Davis' attorney tried this stunt:

"MOREHEAD, Ky. – An attorney for jailed Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis said Friday that the marriage licenses issued by her deputies to several same-sex couples are invalid.

“They are not worth the paper they’re written on,” Mat Staver said outside the Carter County Detention Center, where Davis is being held on a contempt charge.

Speaking at an afternoon news conference in Grayson, about 35 miles from the Rowan County Courthouse, Staver said: “Our position and the position of the clerk of Rowan County is that those licenses are void.”

The licenses issued to same-sex couples Friday aren’t valid, Staver argued, because they were issued under the county clerk’s authority — but Davis hasn’t granted that authority..."

-------------------------------The Washington Post

I honestly don't know why a qualified lawyer would be stupid enough to make that kind of claim, especially considering all that has transpired. The fact is there is no legal basis for Davis' attorney to make such a claim.

"...As the Lexington Herald-Leader noted, Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins has previously said deputy clerks don’t need Davis’s approval to issue valid marriage licenses. Reached at his office Friday, Watkins declined to comment.

In other Kentucky counties, marriage licenses are routinely signed by a deputy, even though the clerk’s name appears on the form..."

-----------------------The Washington Post

So as Chuck said above, "She's in jail where she deserves to be." I agree. It may be a divisive move that will curry blame on gay people for her jail sentence, but she wasn't doing her job. The facts bear out that this was the judge's decision, not something gay people or the ACLU were asking. Despite being given multiple times to comply, she never had any intention of doing her job. She never even looked for a viable alternative.

So she sits in jail. Let her rot.

[Steve]

My favorite Tweet of the day:

[LJay]

from Steve's post above:

"Davis and her attorney's wanted the governor, Steve Beshear, to step in and simply remove her name from the marriage licenses, which might have been a good work around for the issue. Even the Kentucky Senate president (that state's terminology) and the House speaker both jumped on board this band wagon."

I heard on the news this evening that Davis's lawyer is now saying that because her name is not on the licenses issued today they are not valid. One wonders if he knows what he wants.

[ceez]

I wanted to post this yesterday, I'm glad someone did. I haven't read everyone's post yet, but I'm to eager to post on this issue.

the message im going to post may piss people off but its my quick view of things - I saw the video of her denying the marriage license on my phone and she was wrong to do that as its passed by law that she do just that - but I do not want her in jail because her religious beliefs against someone like me having a same sex marriage - remove her from her job - yes , sack her - yes , but why not just re assign her ??? and put someone who will do their job description in her place and we'll all be happy again - don't know if she has kids but that must be awful for them to see mum in jail - I don't care if she hates us for been lgbt move her aside and let people marry in peace

they're going to use her as a martyr, put her on a pedestal and say look at what the gays did to this poor woman. I don't think these people know much about the bible or marriage but that's typical hypocritical "Christians".

Romans 13 - 1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.
2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.
3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

I was surprised to hear about the judge in Tennessee, I'm sure they can manipulate some bible verse to justify the divorce. not that it matters anyway because marriage wasn't fuckin created by Christianity, all that bible bullshit should only apply to other Christians. and why is gay marriage the big issue now, there's a city thirty minutes from me where people are shot every other day and aren't we still at war somewhere.

and don't get me started on Dr. Ben Carson

[jimcrackcorn]

In the interest of fairness ... shouldn't city officials who have established 'sanctuary cities' which are clearly against federal law also be jailed?

Barack Obama also refused to enforce DOMA -- why wasn't he jailed?

Either the law means something or it doesn't.

To support irregular enforcement means that you are for anarchy.

Davis may have been within her rights to refuse to issue same-sex marriage licenses until she became subject to a lower court order directing her to do so. Now that she is subject to such an order, however, she has an obligation to comply, or face potentially significant sanction. Local officials who create sanctuary cities, on the other hand, face no such legal jeopardy, because they are under no obligation to implement or enforce federal law.

Here is where I got the rebuttal to the Sanctuary city verses County Clerk Kim Davis argument:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo...ation-law/

I assume you are referring to President Obama's instructions to the Department Of Justice in your application of President Obama not enforcing DOMA... He did not instruct the Department of Justice (DOJ) to stop enforcing the law, he instructed the DOJ to stop defending the law.

There is a big difference between enforcing and defending a law. DOMA was still being enforced after the President instructed the DOJ to not defend DOMA in the courts.

I hope this helps to clarify the differences.

Sincerely,
Jim

[jimcrackcorn]

To OnTheBeach,

No, your not trying to be fair (unfortunately),,, and I wasn't splitting hairs...

I gave you the correct and truthful facts. I'm sorry.....

Jim

[CellarDweller]

[Virge]

All of this religious freedom crap they are talking about we are taking from them is already backfiring on them. Guys at the bar we went to last night told us about a Muslim airline stewardess who is suing for being fired because her religious beliefs won't let her serve alcohol. We thought it was a joke. It's not.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/05/travel...index.html

It's all the same thing as with the nutcase in Kentucky when you think about it.

[Steve]

Come on! Take a couple of minutes and laugh. It's worth it. Really.
.


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[jimcrackcorn]

Here's some more levity:



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