Brexit? That's it!!

[InbetweenDreams]

I see your point [MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION]. Thank you for restoring my faith in your judgment.

When it comes down to it I would rather deal with a smart criminal than a stupid bullshitter.

Truth is that might be a hard question to answer. Everyone makes remarks about how trump uses vocabulary equivalent to an 11 year old.... Trump, isn't dumb in my opinion, very smart, he knows how to get half the country supporting him by catering to a specific demographic. Trying to be polite, make intelligent conversation, keep a low profile and being honest doesn't get you into the spotlight.

Ever seen the movie Idiocracy? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/



"I don't think we should put Brawndo on the plants."

"Brawndo has what plants crave...it's got electrolytes"

"Water will make the plants grow."

"Put water on plants? Like from the toilet?"

[princealbertofb]

I don't want to burst your bubble @MikeMercury, but I'm afraid that this immigration is not going to stop just because you own your own borders (which you always did - the UK did not belong to Shengen). Look at all the people amassed in Calais who are still hoping to get a passage to the UK and who, incidentally, are not Europeans. This immigration is not going to stop just because you're leaving the union. You're an island, it is true, but people don't have to come in swimming across the Channel as might once have been the case. They'll arrive in planes some way or another. (Which reminds me, in ages when transport was much more difficult, the Vikings still managed to invade Old England. So whatever one says, or thinks or does, one is never safe from invasion.)

I've been listening to the young ones who are all devastated (majorly) by what the older generations have done to them by voting out. Although there are younger voices out there who also think the UK needed to get out, most of the younger generation just don't understand this. I'm not sure the aging population of the UK has been fair to their younger generations, so this charity begins at home mentality seems misplaced, at least as far as the young generations are concerned. They wanted to belong to Europe and to have that mobility that Europe offered. If the younger generation didn't turn out to vote, I suspect it's because they didn't really know what was at stake, nor did they understand all these arguments that didn't make sense to them. They may also have been a little too confident (as many people were) that the referendum would come up with a decision to remain. I know some 16 year-olds would have liked to be consulted on what is going to be a legacy for their adulthood. They've been robbed of that choice.

What's more, where do you expect the people manning your health service will come from? Jobs and qualifications? Britain has let its youth down on a point of principle that could be set right, since there is a will (the democracy that you keep mentioning). I'm afraid now you won't have any say in what the E.U. will decide about trade, social and political arrangements. I feel sorry for all those who feel betrayed by the scare-mongering and the lies (on both sides, I'll agree). Good luck with whatever comes next.

[MikeMercury]

I think you are confused. The Schengen Zone allows free movement of EU nationals and non-EU Nationals. So once refugees have entered the Schengen Zone, say, through Greece or Italy then they have free passage through all of the Schengen Zone. This is why there was criticism of Hungary and other countries when they closed their borders to these refugees as it was against EU rules.
As you say, the UK is not in the Schengen Zone so we can refuse entry to non-EU nationals. Hence the detainment camp in Calais.
Unfortunately, although EU nationals cannot come in freely (they have to show their European Passports - unlike in the Schengen Zone) we cannot stop them coming in and therein lies the problem.
When the EU just consisted of a few countries which were more or less of the same standard of living there was no problem. When the lesser developed countries joined the EU their people who had poorly paid jobs were free to move to any EU country they chose. The UK seemed to be one of the destinations of choice due to a minimum wage and our good benefit system.
Leaving the EU means that no-one has free passage into our country. We can pick and choose who we want to benefit our economy, much the same as Australia does.

[MikeMercury]

(Which reminds me, in ages when transport was much more difficult, the Vikings still managed to invade Old England. So whatever one says, or thinks or does, one is never safe from invasion.)

We've improved our defences since the Viking invasion. In 1940 we managed to prevent Germany from invading when most countries in Europe failed ;-)

[princealbertofb]

We've improved our defences since the Viking invasion. In 1940 we managed to prevent Germany from invading when most countries in Europe failed ;-)

... which is why some people think it's safe to go back to the kind of governments that prevailed in the early 20th century? That doesn't feel safe to me. All this nationalism is not productive in today's world. Since you refer to the Second World War, and British victory then, I would be careful of what I wished for. I'd also be careful of not showing too much hubris. None of us are living in the same world as 60 years ago, far from it. I'm surprised this so-called sovereignty makes you feel that much safer. Are you sure people haven't all been barking up the wrong tree? So much paradox in this retreat after Great Britain ruled the world.

[princealbertofb]

We've improved our defences since the Viking invasion. In 1940 we managed to prevent Germany from invading when most countries in Europe failed ;-)

The stakes were different then. The reasons for invasion were mad too.

[MikeMercury]

I'm surprised this so-called sovereignty makes you feel that much safer

Being in or out of the EU does not affect how safe I feel. I don't really understand how a United States of Europe does anything to prevent conflict between countries. It didn't stop civil war in the USA.
I would ask questions like why does the EU want its own army when NATO fulfils that function.
The expansion of the EU into former USSR countries and the attempted enticement of the Ukraine away from economic ties with Russia and into the EU has provoked a reaction from Russia. I can't believe they didn't see that coming. If it is supposed to help to maintain peace in Europe then why doesn't it invite Russia to join.
I feel the ultimate goal of the EU has not yet been revealed and I suspect it doesn't involve everyone living happily ever after. If Brexit causes other countries to leave and weakens the EU then in my opinion it will be a good thing.

[princealbertofb]

So you don't believe that there is strength in numbers?

[CaptainAwesome]

Just saw some statistics on the voter demographics. Turns out that the older folks voted for a future that the younger ones didn't want...Interesting.

Contrary to what most are saying, I don't think the European Union will break apart in the near future. Brexit has been an eye opener for EU and it would certainly trigger some reforms to discourage the other member states from following suit. The future of the UK(or rather what will be left of it) seems bleak... partly because the EU won't go easy on the trade agreements. Won't go as far as saying it's impossible for them to achieve that supercharged economy they wish to have. If they do, it may take many years. Not sure if the other member states would be willing to take the risk.

[NativeSon]

Gosh, short-term this seems like a very bad thing, but who knows about the long-term. So many conflicting reports and opinions. So up in the air and uncertain. But if there's one thing we can all do, and do well, it's adjust.

In the meantime all we can do is laugh at the absurdity, right? You have kind of lost the intellectual/moral high ground here, but if we do end up voting Trump, you're right back up there.




I <3 Nigel.