Japanese literature

[meridannight]

I have, it wasn't a book that I personally really enjoyed, but I get the sense we have different tastes and I don't want to taint it for you. But I know its often put out there as a must read in terms of the Japanese experience of homosexuality.

OK. I will buy it next time I'm book shopping. I will get back to you on how I liked it, or if I just need to exchange impressions.

I think your tastes and mine do diverge a great deal when it comes to what books we're looking for, but I know you were okay with Monette and you weren't fooled by Giovanni's Room, so for those books we do both pick up, it's not unpromising. I think it has more to do with subject matter than anything else, maybe style too. I tend to like these completely literal books that are concurrently written in an intense more involved and complex style. I wouldn't be able to recognize metaphor even if it bit me.


PS. Are you anywhere near picking up Guibert yet?

[meridannight]

I don't recognize a "Nanshoku", as that makes no sense, however Danshoku makes more sense, as it means "Sodomy" more or less.

It's written 男色 And is read : Male Colour.

Interesting. Thanks for clarification. Those are exactly the characters they use for it, however the sources I've read on Japanese homosexuality so far -- which haven't been many -- (Louis Crompton being where I even discovered the word) spells it in English as 'nanshoku'. Even wikipedia spells it with an 'n'.

Is it (男色 chiefly read as 'sodomy' then, in Japanese? Or is it read 'male love'? Or is there no difference between the two like in English?


I think it is a beautiful way to express male love, 'male color'. It's poetic and sublime. I also think it's rather accurate, homosexuality is a male color. Makes complete sense to me.

[Emiliano]

OK. I will buy it next time I'm book shopping. I will get back to you on how I liked it, or if I just need to exchange impressions.

I think your tastes and mine do diverge a great deal when it comes to what books we're looking for, but I know you were okay with Monette and you weren't fooled by Giovanni's Room, so for those books we do both pick up, it's not unpromising. I think it has more to do with subject matter than anything else, maybe style too. I tend to like these completely literal books that are concurrently written in an intense more involved and complex style. I wouldn't be able to recognize metaphor even if it bit me.


PS. Are you anywhere near picking up Guibert yet?

I havent yet, I've had my nose in a lot of educational theory and history books lately. But thanks for the reminder, I do intend to check him out.

[Sylph]

Interesting. Thanks for clarification. Those are exactly the characters they use for it, however the sources I've read on Japanese homosexuality so far -- which haven't been many -- (Louis Crompton being where I even discovered the word) spells it in English as 'nanshoku'. Even wikipedia spells it with an 'n'.

Is it (男色 chiefly read as 'sodomy' then, in Japanese? Or is it read 'male love'? Or is there no difference between the two like in English?


I think it is a beautiful way to express male love, 'male color'. It's poetic and sublime. I also think it's rather accurate, homosexuality is a male color. Makes complete sense to me.

Oh lord, you're sooooo gay lol

However; I suppose now is time for a lesson, as I think you may need a lil more clarity.

I'll try to make it as seamless in English as possible:


The word for "Male" as we know it, is 男性。

Notice the symbol 男? That is the Kanji for "Man" and is read in the Japanese Kunyomi as "Otoko".

And when paired with other Kanji, it takes the name "Dan" , such as in the word 男性 , which is literally "Man Being" , otherwise known as Male. Read as "Dansei"

This process is the "Onyomi", or the traditional Chinese reading.

So, when paired with 色, which is the word for Colour, read as "Iro", Iro now changes it's name too, to "Shoku".

Hence : "Danshoku"

If read as "Nanshoku" it would more or less come across to me as 何色, which is a sort of question, because you can't combine "Nan" and "Shoku", as that symbol 何, is the close equivalent to the English "What". And is used nearly the same way.

And it's name rarely if ever changes, when paired with other Kanji, which is sort of a "RuleBreaker" so, "Iro" would keep its Kunyomi name and not change to Onyomi.


And if that's the Kanji you saw: it's read as "Danshoku".

And is the word the use for Sodomy, even tho it has the Kanji for colours in it.
As there are other words for sex and gay love and stuff.

But popularly now in Japan, "Gay Love" is just called "BL" which is short for "Boys Love".

If you have more questions you want to ask, go right ahead boo.

But as I said, it's not many "deep" super literary pieces of text on gay boys, at least that I know of, that exist outside of the lore of Samurai and such.

[Ibex]

Hmm, well anime & manga is japanese literature, so I'll recommend such then.
There is a few anime that parodies japanese culture and history and other stuff.

But for some great litature, watch anything Studio Ghibli has made.
Especially:
Spirited Away
My Neighbour Totoro
Castle in the Sky
Grave of the Fireflies
Whisper of the Heart
Princess Mononoke
Howl's Moving Castle
Ponyo
The Secret World of Arrietty
Sanzoku no Musume Rōnya

Not Ghibli
Children Who Chase Lost Voices
The Garden of Words (about a guy with a foot fetish. But still, great artwork)
The Place Promised in Our Early Days
A Letter to Momo
Summer Wars
5 Centimeters Per Second
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time

Not a movie: Your Lie in April
This is one of the most beautiful and tearjerking anime series I've watched.
Nagi no Asukara. Another very beautiful one. Both art and story.

I'll leave it at that for now, since I have a feeling you want books and such.

Oh btw, one that parodies japanese culture and such
Joshiraku
Though you should really know about jp culture, history and such before watching it, because the jokes will most likely go over your head if you don't know anything.

[Sylph]

Hmm, well anime & manga is japanese literature, so I'll recommend such then.
There is a few anime that parodies japanese culture and history and other stuff.

But for some great litature, watch anything Studio Ghibli has made.
Especially:
Spirited Away
My Neighbour Totoro
Castle in the Sky
Grave of the Fireflies
Whisper of the Heart
Princess Mononoke
Howl's Moving Castle
Ponyo
The Secret World of Arrietty
Sanzoku no Musume Rōnya

Not Ghibli
Children Who Chase Lost Voices
The Garden of Words (about a guy with a foot fetish. But still, great artwork)
The Place Promised in Our Early Days
A Letter to Momo
Summer Wars
5 Centimeters Per Second
The Girl Who Leapt Through Time

Not a movie: Your Lie in April
This is one of the most beautiful and tearjerking anime series I've watched.
Nagi no Asukara. Another very beautiful one. Both art and story.

I'll leave it at that for now, since I have a feeling you want books and such.

Oh btw, one that parodies japanese culture and such
Joshiraku
Though you should really know about jp culture, history and such before watching it, because the jokes will most likely go over your head if you don't know anything.

いいね
あのアニメはとってもかわいいです、しかし、
彼は事実を欲しね?
物が50shades of greyはといった。

そして、ibexは日本語で喋りますか

[meridannight]

The word for "Male" as we know it, is 男性。

Notice the symbol 男? That is the Kanji for "Man" and is read in the Japanese Kunyomi as "Otoko".

And when paired with other Kanji, it takes the name "Dan" , such as in the word 男性 , which is literally "Man Being" , otherwise known as Male. Read as "Dansei"

This process is the "Onyomi", or the traditional Chinese reading.

So, when paired with 色, which is the word for Colour, read as "Iro", Iro now changes it's name too, to "Shoku".

Hence : "Danshoku"

If read as "Nanshoku" it would more or less come across to me as 何色, which is a sort of question, because you can't combine "Nan" and "Shoku", as that symbol 何, is the close equivalent to the English "What". And is used nearly the same way.

And it's name rarely if ever changes, when paired with other Kanji, which is sort of a "RuleBreaker" so, "Iro" would keep its Kunyomi name and not change to Onyomi.


And if that's the Kanji you saw: it's read as "Danshoku".

And is the word the use for Sodomy, even tho it has the Kanji for colours in it.
As there are other words for sex and gay love and stuff.

But popularly now in Japan, "Gay Love" is just called "BL" which is short for "Boys Love".

If you have more questions you want to ask, go right ahead boo.

But as I said, it's not many "deep" super literary pieces of text on gay boys, at least that I know of, that exist outside of the lore of Samurai and such.

Thank you Sylph. This has been very helpful to me.

[Sylph]

Thank you Sylph. This has been very helpful to me.

Gurl please!

It's a pleasure to help in any way I can, but don't solely rely on my answers hun, cause there very well may be literary works that would intrigue you, that I simply do not know of.


Just keep ya eyes well peeled hun

[meridannight]

I have, it wasn't a book that I personally really enjoyed, but I get the sense we have different tastes and I don't want to taint it for you. But I know its often put out there as a must read in terms of the Japanese experience of homosexuality.

I have to tell you, I just read Mishima's Forbidden Colors and I fucking detested it! I don't think I have ever detested a book before. I have disliked plenty books, found them unrepresentative of real human nature, just badly written, etc. But loathing I've never felt for a book before. And I loathed Mishima's work. It's despicable what he writes about. And I will never touch another book of his again. So, I'm not gonna read Confessions of a Mask.

(If I take his style of writing itself -- which is not what I had a problem with so much -- I found it kind of inconsistent. There was something about it that was different in different parts and it could also change suddenly. That was kind of weird. I found him also very abstract, and I didn't like that at all).

Mishima's representation of homosexuality is disgusting. Forbidden Colors is worse than Giovanni's Room. I'll take Baldwin over Mishima any day.