Joey Learning English

[artyboy]

I think all Americans should learn English lol

Or at least the ones that think they can speak it lol!!!

[Sylph]

Yawn.

However much I believe Caribbean English should be the forefront of this "whose English is best" debate;

It's very well known that European languages such as English, Spanish and Portuguese;

Have been both out numbered and "out modernized", by nations in which have adopted and improved the languages.

Latin Spanish
Brazilian Portuguese
Caribbean French

And of course American English.

They outnumber us as the now "Native" speakers of English.

Even if Britain birthed the language as it were.

It's simply a matter in this case of "Quantity over Quality".

[TigerLover]

Yawn.

However much I believe Caribbean English should be the forefront of this "whose English is best" debate;

It's very well known that European languages such as English, Spanish and Portuguese;

Have been both out numbered and "out modernized", by nations in which have adopted and improved the languages.

Latin Spanish
Brazilian Portuguese
Caribbean French

And of course American English.

They outnumber us as the now "Native" speakers of English.

Even if Britain birthed the language as it were.

It's simply a matter in this case of "Quantity over Quality".

You've got a good point with yankie English, It has been nicely simplified and some of the idiosyncrasies born of history have been ironed out making it easier for non-natives to learn.

However Traditional English is steeped in ancient arts and culture in a way the others simply aren't. From "the WHO" and the "beatles" to "harry potter" and "Dr Who" British English still saturates American and global culture. Plus we will always have good old Billy Shakespeare.

Also Americans still struggle with metaphors.
"Hold down the fort." "Could care less."

:mad:

Actually while I'm at it.
Oi Americans!
It's Maths not Math, the word you're shortening is Mathmatics, it's not a singular noun. Oh and stop pronouncing Herb as Erb. The H isn't silent and we didn't fight the 100 years war just to have our language bastardised with French.

Otherwise top notch job on removing the annoying bits especially all those U's all over the place.

God Save the queen.
*salute*

[Sylph]

You've got a good point with yankie English, It has been nicely simplified and some of the idiosyncrasies born of history have been ironed out making it easier for non-natives to learn.

However Traditional English is steeped in ancient arts and culture in a way the others simply aren't. From "the WHO" and the "beatles" to "harry potter" and "Dr Who" British English still saturates American and global culture. Plus we will always have good old Billy Shakespeare.

Also Americans still struggle with metaphors.
"Hold down the fort." "Could care less."

:mad:

Actually while I'm at it.
Oi Americans!
It's Maths not Math, the word you're shortening is Mathmatics, it's not a singular noun. Oh and stop pronouncing Herb as Erb. The H isn't silent and we didn't fight the 100 years war just to have our language bastardised with French.

Otherwise top notch job on removing the annoying bits especially all those U's all over the place.

God Save the queen.
*salute*

Darlin, I'd hardly say American English has been simplified. Merely modified.

There is a difference twixt them two words hun.


Aside from pronunciation, the language retains the exact same, if not more, "difficulties", that European English has.


To me, a Native speaker of Neither, both varieties sound and read, very awkwardly and honestly, overly wordy. But that is neither here nor there.
I grew up with our variety of English, which is what you can truely call "simplified", in the sense that words are curbed or altogether changed for easier speech.

However, this doesn't negate the fact that America has more English speakers, and so therefore realistically have monopoly over the English language as a whole. In the Global sense.


Nearly all non-British learners of English, learn American, simply for it's more global use.

Even us here on our various west Indian islands, as we retain the British education system (more or less), as I can read and write both Englishes proficiently, tho I tend to prefer to use more American colloquial terms but British spelling.

Actually as a side anecdote;

Centre - is usually how we'd describe the literal Center of something like a Building (Business Centre)

Whereas every other scenario we use "Center".

So we even assign different significances to the different spellings.


But overall, European languages simply have the unfortunate luck of suffering from outnumbered speakers, of those in the countries in which were colonized by them.


Like I said. English, Spanish, Portuguese and French notably.

[TigerLover]

Darlin, I'd hardly say American English has been simplified. Merely modified.

There is a difference twixt them two words

Indeed there is and I selected simplified deliberately after some thought.

Simplicity is a relative concept. US English is simplified. But this conversation has brought home just how small and inconsequential those simplications must seem to a non-native English speaker.

Now I'm not a patriot in the traditional sense and I'm not among the Englishmen who take some sad pride in the empire or WW2.

The one source of patriotic pride I have in my country is our place in the arts. There is not a people on Earth that do not enjoy British made music, TV, theatre and literature*. Considering the size of our population our artistic contribution is massively oversized.

So I guess my point is simply..... who gives a damn about the numbers right now. Languages shift over long stretches of time like cultural glaciers. There is a union Jack emblazoned on the very soul of mankind and it's not going anywhere. That alone will sustain British English long past the point where all the Westerners are singing corporate songs in Mandarin before starting their work day with Kalastetics.

Also the Spanish and French languages are a great example of history repeating itself. That's exactly what happened to the ancient Latin those languages are descended from.
It's a sort of linguistic Karma.

*if you don't count remote jungle tribes and whatnot.

[Sylph]

Indeed there is and I selected simplified deliberately after some thought.

Simplicity is a relative concept. US English is simplified. But this conversation has brought home just how small and inconsequential those simplications must seem to a non-native English speaker.

Now I'm not a patriot in the traditional sense and I'm not among the Englishmen who take some sad pride in the empire or WW2.

The one source of patriotic pride I have in my country is our place in the arts. There is not a people on Earth that do not enjoy British made music, TV, theatre and literature*. Considering the size of our population our artistic contribution is massively oversized.

So I guess my point is simply..... who gives a damn about the numbers right now. Languages shift over long stretches of time like cultural glaciers. There is a union Jack emblazoned on the very soul of mankind and it's not going anywhere. That alone will sustain British English long past the point where all the Westerners are singing corporate songs in Mandarin before starting their work day with Kalastetics.

Also the Spanish and French languages are a great example of history repeating itself. That's exactly what happened to the ancient Latin those languages are descended from.
It's a sort of linguistic Karma.

*if you don't count remote jungle tribes and whatnot.

You are indeed correct in most of what you said, particularly about lingual evolution;

But perhaps I was not clear enough in my analysis:


British English is not as nor any less important than any other, so I don't see why the humour in an American needing to learn "English" holds any validity.


I simply don't speak neither, however find that British tend to like to hold dominion over the English language, in that they gave birth to it over the many years ago.

Tho likewise Americans do very much the same thing. So don't think I'm bashing England alone;

Simply the humour and of course the fact that in the grand scheme of things, the density of American outweighs British, and history itself cannot even balance it out. Like with European vs Latin American Spanish.

Neither one is "better" than the other, but Latin Spanish holds more speakers, variety, learners and so forth. As such, it is the most dominant variety of Spanish spoken today.

As is American English.

Which now holds dominion over English globally speaking. Perhaps not historically, but now so in the modern era.

[Insertnamehere]

we didn't fight the 100 years war just to have our language bastardised with French

No, sure, it was fought to put an English king of French descent on the French throne, a feat in which England eventually failed miserably, managing to lose all its continental possesions except Calais in the process :eek:.

And English is 30% French anyway

So I guess my point is simply..... who gives a damn about the numbers right now. Languages shift over long stretches of time like cultural glaciers.

That was the point in Sylph's comment. Languages shift when given enough geographical expanse and population.

Now I'm sure this recent trend that Artyboy has of bashing Americans for just about anything is all in good jest, but it portrays a more or less discriminative behavior that some other Europeans indulge in all too often in a more serious way.

When it comes to language I hear way too often the nasty kind of Spaniard that thinks we down here speak a monstruosity that should be named as the 8th capital sin.

Thing is, numbers ARE important. There are 121 million people in México alone, another 100 million between Colombia and Argentina and we are still leaving out many others. And that amount compares to...how many Spaniards?

So why the minority feels entitled to set the rules for everybody else?

What can Britain do to "teach" 300 millions living in the world's sole superpower?

What can tiny Portugal do against 200 million Brazilians

If there is any Spaniard, Brit, Frenchman, Portuguese etc, that thinks we need to be "taught" how to speak "properly", I dare them to come and try. Let's see how that goes