Pronouns

[Adam88]

I'd probably be more chill with the pronoun game if there wasn't a new one every other week. Gender-trenders kinda "over saturated the market", if ya get me. It's one of my huge issue with the LGBT community as a whole, and for sure a main reason why I don't take part in the "community" anymore. It's full of attention grabbing purple haired perpetually offending gender trenders whos pronouns change as often as their hair color, and frankly -its annoying. I refuse to cater to that nonsense. I feel like it's the symptom of a 1st world generation with no real battles to fight, so they come up with something to rally behind so they can be a part of some ill conceived social movement. Not that its ONLY them with this problem. There plenty of movements here in the US that have that same energy.

[Cardiganwearer]

I'd probably be more chill with the pronoun game if there wasn't a new one every other week. Gender-trenders kinda "over saturated the market", if ya get me. It's one of my huge issue with the LGBT community as a whole, and for sure a main reason why I don't take part in the "community" anymore. It's full of attention grabbing purple haired perpetually offending gender trenders whos pronouns change as often as their hair color, and frankly -its annoying. I refuse to cater to that nonsense. I feel like it's the symptom of a 1st world generation with no real battles to fight, so they come up with something to rally behind so they can be a part of some ill conceived social movement. Not that its ONLY them with this problem. There plenty of movements here in the US that have that same energy.

I'm sure the LGBT community as a whole cries itself to sleep every night at the thought of your unwillingness to participate; what a loss.

[Adam88]

I'd probably be more chill with the pronoun game if there wasn't a new one every other week. Gender-trenders kinda "over saturated the market", if ya get me. It's one of my huge issue with the LGBT community as a whole, and for sure a main reason why I don't take part in the "community" anymore. It's full of attention grabbing purple haired perpetually offending gender trenders whos pronouns change as often as their hair color, and frankly -its annoying. I refuse to cater to that nonsense. I feel like it's the symptom of a 1st world generation with no real battles to fight, so they come up with something to rally behind so they can be a part of some ill conceived social movement. Not that its ONLY them with this problem. There plenty of movements here in the US that have that same energy.

I'm sure the LGBT community as a whole cries itself to sleep every night at the thought of your unwillingness to participate; what a loss.

Participate in what, exactly? Pride events were people act like morons? Having to learn a new pronoun every other day? Blatant identity politics? I'm curious, exactly what is it that I'll be missing out on for my unwillingness to participate.... I'd certainly like to know. As a former gay bar worker, and a guy whos spent countless time with the community in my 20s, I've yet experience one redeeming quality over the years about the "gay community". So what is it? Free condoms?

[Horse]

And, just like that, I'm already regretting having joined this website.

I'd probably be more chill with the pronoun game if there wasn't a new one every other week. Gender-trenders kinda "over saturated the market", if ya get me. It's one of my huge issue with the LGBT community as a whole, and for sure a main reason why I don't take part in the "community" anymore. It's full of attention grabbing purple haired perpetually offending gender trenders whos pronouns change as often as their hair color, and frankly -its annoying. I refuse to cater to that nonsense. I feel like it's the symptom of a 1st world generation with no real battles to fight, so they come up with something to rally behind so they can be a part of some ill conceived social movement. Not that its ONLY them with this problem. There plenty of movements here in the US that have that same energy.

First of all, gender "trenders" don't exist. Despite what you seem to think, trans and GNC people have a lot of real battles to fight, especially in the US, that I'm not going to get into now because I was specifically looking for queer spaces where I wouldn't have to do that. No one who's not really trans/GNC sticks around claiming they are, at any rate. Second of all, what's wrong with purple hair and what does that have to do with gender? My mum, a cis woman in her 50s, has purple hair and is literally the only person I know who does. And as to "pronouns change as often as their hair color," sorry but if people's pronouns are changing that almost definitely means they've not found what they're most comfortable with yet and are still exploring. Even as a trans person, yes, it can be frustrating when people ask for pronouns that are new, but at the same time, most of those people are non-binary and/or neurodivergent and it's kind of not a big deal what pronouns they want unless they're someone you know personally, and still shouldn't be then, either. It's really not hard to just respect the way someone's asked to be addressed, even if you don't understand or find it frustrating, just to be a decent human being. People having weird pronouns literally does not affect you, it doesn't hurt anyone, even if it gets confusing. Especially since a lot of these people you seem to be singling out are teenagers. They're allowed to experiment in how they express themselves and if you're not okay with that, maybe just keep to yourself and leave those people alone and don't raise a kid. Also, as someone who is actually in trans spaces ever, there's nowhere near as many of them as you're implying either. I can count all the ones I've heard of in the past 10 years on one hand. All of that aside, that's not even what OP was talking about with this thread so. GG for being hostile for no reasoon.

As to the discussion of the thread itself. I honestly don't know what the best solution is, because obviously adding pronouns to our introductions is going to be more irritating for cis people and possibly for passing trans folks as well (especially those who are stealth), but at the same time, not all trans/GNC people pass. I don't think it should be required that people give their pronouns when introducing themselves, but I do think it should be socially acceptable for someone to do so if they feel you might guess the wrong ones, and in a lot of places, it really isn't acceptable. Being misgendered or called the wrong version of sir/ma'am when you've been going to so many lengths and fighting through all these obstacles to finally be seen as who you are is very defeating of a feeling, so there needs to be a way for people to circumvent that when and if they can. It's very disheartening to just be misgendered on accident by an employee at the grocery store (though not worth anything more than a quick correction and then moving on) and even more so if it's by someone you need to associate with for work or someone you're introducing yourself to for social reasons.

TL;DR: Pronouns are important, but people are still trying to figure out the best way to navigate them for everyone.

[Adam88]

And, just like that, I'm already regretting having joined this website.

I'd probably be more chill with the pronoun game if there wasn't a new one every other week. Gender-trenders kinda "over saturated the market", if ya get me. It's one of my huge issue with the LGBT community as a whole, and for sure a main reason why I don't take part in the "community" anymore. It's full of attention grabbing purple haired perpetually offending gender trenders whos pronouns change as often as their hair color, and frankly -its annoying. I refuse to cater to that nonsense. I feel like it's the symptom of a 1st world generation with no real battles to fight, so they come up with something to rally behind so they can be a part of some ill conceived social movement. Not that its ONLY them with this problem. There plenty of movements here in the US that have that same energy.

First of all, gender "trenders" don't exist. Despite what you seem to think, trans and GNC people have a lot of real battles to fight, especially in the US, that I'm not going to get into now because I was specifically looking for queer spaces where I wouldn't have to do that. No one who's not really trans/GNC sticks around claiming they are, at any rate. Second of all, what's wrong with purple hair and what does that have to do with gender? My mum, a cis woman in her 50s, has purple hair and is literally the only person I know who does. And as to "pronouns change as often as their hair color," sorry but if people's pronouns are changing that almost definitely means they've not found what they're most comfortable with yet and are still exploring. Even as a trans person, yes, it can be frustrating when people ask for pronouns that are new, but at the same time, most of those people are non-binary and/or neurodivergent and it's kind of not a big deal what pronouns they want unless they're someone you know personally, and still shouldn't be then, either. It's really not hard to just respect the way someone's asked to be addressed, even if you don't understand or find it frustrating, just to be a decent human being. People having weird pronouns literally does not affect you, it doesn't hurt anyone, even if it gets confusing. Especially since a lot of these people you seem to be singling out are teenagers. They're allowed to experiment in how they express themselves and if you're not okay with that, maybe just keep to yourself and leave those people alone and don't raise a kid. Also, as someone who is actually in trans spaces ever, there's nowhere near as many of them as you're implying either. I can count all the ones I've heard of in the past 10 years on one hand. All of that aside, that's not even what OP was talking about with this thread so. GG for being hostile for no reasoon.

As to the discussion of the thread itself. I honestly don't know what the best solution is, because obviously adding pronouns to our introductions is going to be more irritating for cis people and possibly for passing trans folks as well (especially those who are stealth), but at the same time, not all trans/GNC people pass. I don't think it should be required that people give their pronouns when introducing themselves, but I do think it should be socially acceptable for someone to do so if they feel you might guess the wrong ones, and in a lot of places, it really isn't acceptable. Being misgendered or called the wrong version of sir/ma'am when you've been going to so many lengths and fighting through all these obstacles to finally be seen as who you are is very defeating of a feeling, so there needs to be a way for people to circumvent that when and if they can. It's very disheartening to just be misgendered on accident by an employee at the grocery store (though not worth anything more than a quick correction and then moving on) and even more so if it's by someone you need to associate with for work or someone you're introducing yourself to for social reasons.

TL;DR: Pronouns are important, but people are still trying to figure out the best way to navigate them for everyone.

Gender trenders absolutely exist, and I'm pretty sure that 90% of Tumblr consists of them.

Trenders are that purple haired girl with 20 facial piercings that likes to interject sexuality and gender into every single subject, rages when "misgendered", and has to condescend to everyone who doesn't play into her make believe world of gender.

Trenders are that trans-hon that flips the fuck out in Gamestop because someone used the wrong pronoun instead of just leaving like a rational, well balanced human.

Trenders are that blogger that think everything is a micro-aggression and has to complain that no-one can keep up with their constantly changing "genderfluid" identity. 


   And what exactly do you mean you face special sets of problems in the US? The US is literally one of the greatest nations on earth the be LGBT, Trust me, I lived in Iraq for over a year. They hang people their for being gay. Thank your lucky stars you're American, because anywhere else thats not 1st world (and even some 1st world) you stand a high chance of getting killed. Trust me, I'd know. LGBT people complaining about America is ridiculous, and if you didn't want to touch on that subject, you shouldn't have brought it up. As for raising kids? I'll raise as many as I please. Not really something you get a say in. They can be as straight or gay as they wan't,, but they're going to know the difference between a male and a female, and not to play pretend with diluted adults. I don't care how someone "feels", you are your born gender. Thats life, thats the card you were dealt. Life isn't fair. You can be trans, absolutely, you can live that life if you see fit, but you cant change from one gender into another. As for my precieved hostility, look at what forum you're in. This is for debates. And I'm clearly not the type to fluff my argument with extra padding. 

Adding pronouns to introductions just mean you aren't passing.

[InbetweenDreams]

@Horse Sorry you regret joining GS. The thing about discussion forums, especially on the scale of GS in that there's people from all over and there will be opinions that are very different. I think the effort in trying to be both respectful and also stating your opinion is a delicate balance. I don't think anyone is intending to downplay the importance of those who are transgender, using pronouns and overall being disrespectful to those who lead a different lifestyle. I think @Adam88 kind of gets at what others were touching on, the "trenders" as he puts it who causes a scene at GameStop or a McDonald's because someone said sir instead of ma'am. As I have said elsewhere in the thread, I think it is terrible to intentionally mis-gender someone, especially if they've made it known that they identify as a man, woman, non-binary.

As far the US being racist or anti-trans or anti-immigrants. Sure, the US is definitely not perfect by any means. I think Serpentza hits the nail on the head about how many Americans think America is terrible and mainly because many of us are unaware of how things are in other countries. We have it pretty good, even when don't, we still have it pretty good... I posted his video here, https://gayspeak.com/Thread-Americans-Wh...loody-Much

[Adam88]

@Horse Sorry you regret joining GS. The thing about discussion forums, especially on the scale of GS in that there's people from all over and there will be opinions that are very different. I think the effort in trying to be both respectful and also stating your opinion is a delicate balance. I don't think anyone is intending to downplay the importance of those who are transgender, using pronouns and overall being disrespectful to those who lead a different lifestyle. I think @Adam88 kind of gets at what others were touching on, the "trenders" as he puts it who causes a scene at GameStop or a McDonald's because someone said sir instead of ma'am. As I have said elsewhere in the thread, I think it is terrible to intentionally mis-gender someone, especially if they've made it known that they identify as a man, woman, non-binary.

As far the US being racist or anti-trans or anti-immigrants. Sure, the US is definitely not perfect by any means. I think Serpentza hits the nail on the head about how many Americans think America is terrible and mainly because many of us are unaware of how things are in other countries. We have it pretty good, even when don't, we still have it pretty good... I posted his video here, https://gayspeak.com/Thread-Americans-Wh...loody-Much

I identify as royalty. I demand to be called "My Lordship/Your Highness/My Liege" after every post refencing me.

[artyboy]

Well your American you can't talk properly in the first place, so pronouns might be going to far.

grrrr Colonials and their strange ways

[Adam88]

Well your American you can't talk properly in the first place, so pronouns might be going to far.

grrrr Colonials and their strange ways

You guys call cookies "biscuits" and you still have a psudeo-monarchy. Lets not talk about strange ways now, I think you'll know who will win that one... We left you guys ages ago for being a bunch of nerds. Then you tried to come over and take our cool af Giga-Chad muskets and we gave you the biggest recorded swirly in history. You guys were all "ohhhh you have to pay us back for helping you beat the Frogs!", we were all "Get fuckin' wrecked, nerds". Then we pulled out our dick, and hit you so hard with it, bald eagles soared through the sky and escorted you back to tea-land, flying all the way across the ocean. Then George Washington ripped out a dual neck Fender strat, and slammed down some cords so heavy that the Black Hills went from some lame af hill into a GIANT MONUMENT OF PRESIDENTS. 

Then after that you guys came back being all cry baby, and we felt bad about it until you blew up our sweet ass storage room of black powder, then we were all like "oh fuck you, Brit-bong", and we torched your dumb beta af state houses in Canada (which isn't even America, so it's barely even real), then you guys cried HARDER and burned down our Capitol, but we didn't even care cuz' we didn't even want that one anyways, jerks. Then we beat you guys again, and we were all "I don't give af, let them keep Canada, that place is fuckin' gay anyways", and we put on our aviator shades, and peeled out in our sick af Dodge Charger and got drunk with the hoes in the back seat, all while your nerds were doing algebra or some shit. 

It's not like we were gonna invite you to our kick ass cabin anyways, where we could just chill and get WASTED...maybe we could be the big spoon by the fire, and embrace each other, feeling the warmth of each others presence while staring into those eyes which rival the Mariana Trench in their depth, and in spirit, the milky way and beyond, to the deepest most quiet reaches of the most peaceful slumbering depths of our universe. Deep yet sorrowful, powerful in their beauty with a defined innocence only palpable by the most loathsome of men, who've felt the pain of the world that wrests upon your heart. Constantly waning as sea during a stormy night, but as elegant as the waves on the calmest of Mediterranean shores. To embrace you forever, as a sinner clutches his soul, and a saint the hearts of man. Melded as a danseur while stepping the tarantula, as the light flickering on a glass of Dewers Scotch, and as the pale moon on an empty poppy field. Once foreign, now embracing, if only for a shirt time. Until we slumber. Forever. Together. As one.

Not like in a GAY way tho.

 MERICAAA!!!!