Anxiety & Overthinking

[ChadCoxRox]

Wow Mike you really are suffering mentally and emotionally. I'm sorry to read it but glad you wrote it. I suppose you know I could never resist sharing my thoughts on how your level of "stinkin' thinkin'" can be at least partially mitigated with some reliable cognitive processing therapy for sure though! I've seen the truly gratifying results of such work over and over for so many years now. There are both external and internal factors and methods that can be practiced for enduring relief (as if assuming so don't already know)! Anywhoo, I can so relate personally to your descriptions though the degree of my anxiety is not so very heavy...just real. Having lost my mom, her only brother, and her sister all to dementia, and now here I am with my dad, a self-inflicted gun shot patient in a Hospice bed in a memory care unit. Ugh. Hugs to you sir. Listen, you and your guy are so beautiful together and I truly appreciate seeing you happy with that aspect. Checks and balances for you two to mitigate your guilt will help, but you cannot fully enjoy the fruits of that labor if you still hold even unconscious shame repeatedly fueling the anxiety situation. It's not just "stinkin' thinkin'" in your conscious awareness and so I really would love to hear how you've found a professional to explore, strategize, and practice. Meanwhile, hugs to you.

[InbetweenDreams]

Wow Mike you really are suffering mentally and emotionally. I'm sorry to read it but glad you wrote it. I suppose you know I could never resist sharing my thoughts on how your level of "stinkin' thinkin'" can be at least partially mitigated with some reliable cognitive processing therapy for sure though! I've seen the truly gratifying results of such work over and over for so many years now. There are both external and internal factors and methods that can be practiced for enduring relief (as if assuming so don't already know)!

The only things I really know about anxiety is just that it is a "feeling" and in my case it appers to be stemming from my racing thoughts. Of course the question is did the chicken or the egg come first (are it the racing intrusive thoughts first then anxiety or the other way around). I know that things like deep breathing help but they are only good if you can catch yourself and are in a state of mind where that can be useful.

I can only speculate what might be the root cause iof anxeity. I assume there is both a genetic comonent in addition to simply growing up in the home I lived in. The thing is even when I had a therapist that I liked, I have never really got my head around my anxiety, meaning I haven't really gained any real skills in managing all this. The other elephant in the room is the depression that accompanies anxiety. It is also something I tend to sweep under the rug. Sometimes I will agree that depression and anxiety are linked and other times I feel like I just have anxiety...but the truth is depression is rolled into all this. Hard to say for sure but there is something Eeyore about me at times.

Anywhoo, I can so relate personally to your descriptions though the degree of my anxiety is not so very heavy...just real. Having lost my mom, her only brother, and her sister all to dementia, and now here I am with my dad, a self-inflicted gun shot patient in a Hospice bed in a memory care unit. Ugh. Hugs to you sir.

It's very sad to watch. I've watched my grandmother and now my mother go through it all. It's basically been my entire life that my mother has had health problems after another. From epilepsy, to doctors over prescribing pain meds in the 90's, to kidney disease and so on.

Listen, you and your guy are so beautiful together and I truly appreciate seeing you happy with that aspect. Checks and balances for you two to mitigate your guilt will help, but you cannot fully enjoy the fruits of that labor if you still hold even unconscious shame repeatedly fueling the anxiety situation. It's not just "stinkin' thinkin'" in your conscious awareness and so I really would love to hear how you've found a professional to explore, strategize, and practice. Meanwhile, hugs to you.

He is the only person I have met that has been able to make me feel "safe," if that makes sense. Maybe its just that he simply cares....No, it is deeper. He's just a good person, like gives me goosebumps, and while this feeds into the shame, guilt, low self-esteem, etc, sometimes I do feel like I am not going to measure up being the partner he deserves. I need to stop thinking that.

I haven't found anyone yet and the problem I will face, at least in the short term, is time and being able to afford therapy. Even though the copay is very reasonable it adds up and fast and the last thing I want to do is owe my therapist money (that kind of happened last time, therapist thought she was being helpful letting me slide but it also became something I worried about). But I do think I need some straightening out and maybe some of that is changing jobs but getting myself there is the tough part.

I seem to have this thing where I feel like either job postings are either not worth my time because they don't pay enough or I feel like I am unqualified. I am sure there are many cases where I'm probably right but this has stiffled me from doing a proper job search. There is of course a semi-long story about how I actually had two jobs offered, one was rescinded (right after I gave notice) and the other I backed out of because I for some reason feel loyal to where I am at now, but it's too damn far away. As much as I can tolerate long drives, it's probably not healthy and damn sure isn't cheap, even with a Prius. It's 124 miles, one way, and I do that commute twice a week and in one hand it is a pretty good setup. I have to be on site twice a week, most of the time, and then remote the other two. Money is the secondary problem. I'm vested, been there for over 8 years now and kind of at the point where I need to decide is I should stay for the retirement and pension or leave to chase a better salary and hope I don't land myself at a crummy company and have to then join the job hopping game every few years. Basically, I am realizing that I should have done more inesvting in myself earlier on. Then again, AI is really going to change things, and possibly sonner and in way I haven't begun to imagine. And see, here we are, I went from talking about needing to get a job closer to home and we're on AI... I guess that's a clue into what's going on in my head. Something happens, I worry about it and then just goes on deeper and deeper until I have thought of all the things that will either go wrong, why I will fail, why something is not worth it. It is a similar track when I want to buy something I can't afford (e-bike), but instead, I'm trying to justify every reason why it is ok to go buy something. I've even told my bf to "tell me this is a bad idea."

Anyway, that's enough jibber jabber from me for now.

[ChadCoxRox]

[quote pid="738478" dateline="1689269965"]
The only things I really know about anxiety is just that it is a "feeling" and in my case it appers to be stemming from my racing thoughts. 
[/quote]

The feedback I have is first to look at and consider what you "said" in the above sentence. "it is a "feeling...from my racing thoughts." You sir are actually an expert on anxiety. Only your awareness (and maybe willingness) are actual, real limitations. As a caveat, it is becoming more and more popular to criticize or judge discussion of these matters as "therapy speak." This is not a constructive or helpful judgement and I advise avoiding such a view as helpful or anywhere near adequate for real recovery.

The very first premise is to accept internally that true behavioral health recovery is possible, real, and, worth the effort, both for one's self and in relationships. There's a ton of ways conceptualize how thoughts and feelings result in reactions and responses. For the vast majority in successful recovery we make the following distinctions.

First reactions are survival based with fight and flight paths. Next, responses are "ability to respond" or response-ability and are choice-based to move in recovery toward thriving beyond surviving.

Beliefs and Values lead to our perceptions.
Perceptions lead to our thinking.
Thinking leads to our self-talk.
Self-talk leads to our feelings.
And, Feelings lead to either reactions or responses.

Sorting through this with an experienced person can help you unlearn negatives and nurture growth and change toward positives.

It's just a way of studying it that works more for more than other ways.

I challenge you to consider, discuss, process, apply, and practice (through good and bad) and most valuably, within relationship with those you trust "most."

As for time and cost...there are plenty of healthy paths besides heavy time and money dedication!! Especially through virtual resources. I find that virtual resources don't really have the same effect as combining them with real life interpersonal interactions. It's the same for physical health though. No time, no results.

[InbetweenDreams]

The feedback I have is first to look at and consider what you "said" in the above sentence. "it is a "feeling...from my racing thoughts." You sir are actually an expert on anxiety. Only your awareness (and maybe willingness) are actual, real limitations.

That is more likely true, as one might expect, I have more insight to myself than into how others experience their own anxiety. I would imagine the triggers, the root cause for someone else's anxiety, despression or anything really might be completely different (but probably like a classic rock song, seems familiar).

Then you mention willingness. Now that, if I am being honest with myself, is certainly an issue. Just talking about going to the gym the other day and how the hardest part is getting started. I think there's evidence to support that about me here here on GS. I mean since 2015 I've lost ~25-30 lbs twice. Which really unlines two problem. One being getting started and the 2nd is staying in the saddle. While going to the gym or eating right are different I think anxiety is much as a habit as is choosing to run.....or not choosing to go run. I think I'm likely about to jump into something you mention later in your reply but this next bit I kind of get lost.

As a caveat, it is becoming more and more popular to criticize or judge discussion of these matters as "therapy speak." This is not a constructive or helpful judgement and I advise avoiding such a view as helpful or anywhere near adequate for real recovery.

Maybe I missed something here, wasn't quite sure what your were specifically getting at...

The very first premise is to accept internally that true behavioral health recovery is possible, real, and, worth the effort, both for one's self and in relationships. There's a ton of ways conceptualize how thoughts and feelings result in reactions and responses. For the vast majority in successful recovery we make the following distinctions.

First reactions are survival based with fight and flight paths. Next, responses are "ability to respond" or response-ability and are choice-based to move in recovery toward thriving beyond surviving.

Beliefs and Values lead to our perceptions.
Perceptions lead to our thinking.
Thinking leads to our self-talk.
Self-talk leads to our feelings.
And, Feelings lead to either reactions or responses.

Sorting through this with an experienced person can help you unlearn negatives and nurture growth and change toward positives.

I like how you broke that down. Crazy how deconstructing that made me think more about childhood. After all I'd say we learn a lot of our beliefs and values during childhood and I'd say my parents' parenting style has probably made a bigger mark on me than I can realize.

I think it is important to point out that acknowledging childhood trauma doesn't equate to blame. Afterall, I can't imagine myself, the mess that I am, having to raise kids. No matter how hard I try, I would inflict trauma onto them of some kind. I also think it is important to point out that not all childhood trauma, at least in my case, isn't strictly from my parents, it's everything. It's really down to how we learn and react to environment, and there's also a genetic/hereditary component.

Trying to realize all that, somewhere in my routine and all the crazy that is going on around me, whether it is my family, my job, my partner I need to make time for me. Not me time as in I want to play video games, but maybe meditate or go walk on the treadmill.

Having a thought while writing this, sometimes I feel like I am being forced to stay within some sort lines in life. Like, why do I feel like an extra for a movie set and not the protaganist? I often worry about being a "problem" for others, which sure, having a general concern for not being a pain in someone's ass is not a bad thing, but it seems I become overly sensitive to this concern, especially with my partner.

It's just a way of studying it that works more for more than other ways.

I challenge you to consider, discuss, process, apply, and practice (through good and bad) and most valuably, within relationship with those you trust "most."

As for time and cost...there are plenty of healthy paths besides heavy time and money dedication!! Especially through virtual resources. I find that virtual resources don't really have the same effect as combining them with real life interpersonal interactions. It's the same for physical health though. No time, no results.

The biggest challenge is doing the homework, but maybe being in a better environment now will make that a bit easier to get into. The unfortunate truth is that it does take a fair bit of discomfort to achieve the "comfort" we're looking for and I'd be a lying ass bitch if I wasn't looking for an easy way out of all the work it is going to take. I just need to find a way to keep the positive mental attiude and not allow the abcense of apparent progress get me down.

[ChadCoxRox]

I think I'm likely about to jump into something you mention later in your reply but this next bit I kind of get lost.

As a caveat, it is becoming more and more popular to criticize or judge discussion of these matters as "therapy speak." This is not a constructive or helpful judgement and I advise avoiding such a view as helpful or anywhere near adequate for real recovery.

Maybe I missed something here, wasn't quite sure what your were specifically getting at...

 I mentioned this because if you begin to explore and work on this with others, it is becoming common to have the concepts and language discounted as "just therapy speak" or not realistic or actually helpful. So I thought I'd add this bit so if you run into negative naysayers you'll already be prepared not to throw the baby out with the bath water. If someone says, " oh that's just therapy speak," or "forget all that psychobabble," I want you to already have a reliable appreciation that it is not meant to be perceived in this way at all!! Someone who says that to discount the efficacy of the message is passing judgement based on opinion and not real lived recovery experience, I assure you!

If you can find just one support group, or recovery supportive and recovery-focused activity to participate in, even if it's only a course, or a podcast, or a weekly support group.... this will make SO MUCH of a difference giving the time and effort to yourself.

Listen, most are not even interested in talking about it with any depth or genuine care. I get that. I see it E V E R Y damn day. But for those who actually move from surviving to thriving, they'll ALL likely tell you it happened because of the investment of time and effort. It does not have to be a debated idea or a wishful musing in your mind and heart. "Keep it simple over get it done" is the formula for real change. And oh my GOD you are so very worth it. You are a beautiful and interesting man and you very well deserve the fruits of the labor. I have not remained "obsessed" and/or fully dedicated all the time all through the years, but I've documented my desire by date every time I've "wanted to" and over time I've acquired enough progress to love more and worry less.

This is my sincere wish for you Mike.

[InbetweenDreams]

Yeah I don't think of seeing a therapist and seeing their advice as therapy speak. I do try to connect the dots in how or why such advice would be applied to be, how it can work, do I think it will help me, etc. I do think like most things, you get out what you put in and understanding that isn't a straight line.

I really appriciate your kind words. It has been a pretty crappy couple of weeks. My mom passed away on the 24th and been dealing with that. I'm grateful for the time we got with her as she had many health issues for a long time. I am a bit befuddled about the fact that no one from her side of the family came or sent flowers, granted we're talking maybe a few aunts and her one sister. I understand that the family dynamics are kind of whacky with my dad and probably has a lot to do with why no one stayed in touch. It's a long story that even I don't know all the details about, but I never knew my mom to be hateful or anything like that. She was very sweet and if anything too happy and optimistic considering she didn't to particpiate in a lot of stuff with us. Fucking sucks, the people who she held in high regard, loved, weren't there for her. I had felt that perhaps her death would be an oppertunity to rekindle relationships with my aunt and cousins on her side of the family but also feeling at odds given the history and the fact that the only flowers were the ones my partner's mother got and ones my employer sent. She deserved so many more flowers. Really goes to show who matters and who doesn't. And then, I also see how maybe someone can't afford to send flowers or whatever, but then I feel like I am making excuses.

I just need to make up my mind, because I feel a bit angry about her family, mainly that they just exiled her for no reason, but they basically did that to her brother as well. We're just another screwed up family and I feel like that's the last straw forever with them. The only family that really counts are the people who actually know and love me.

Just learning that this is not normal and how I've been deprived of a family and having relatives, really distored my world view growing up and even now. Learning that aunts can be your best friend and not memories of petty theft and having to lock our toys in my parents bedroom because our cousins would steal shit from us.

I really hate the word family sometimes and how it is used. Like how one friend will say that you're family, until that one day you're not. Everybody's family during fair weather.

That's all I got time for now. Hope everyone is well.

[Cridders88]

@InbetweenDreams

I am really sorry to hear about your Mum Mike. And I am really sorry to hear that her side of the family haven't been there or reached out. There is no excuse for that.

Sadly, as you progress further into life you realise blood isn't always thicker than water. It can be really tough but you already have the right attitude with only surrounding yourself with people that love you and care. It does wonders for your mental health. I hope the pain of losing your Mum eases with time man.

[ChadCoxRox]

My mom passed away on the 24th and been dealing with that. I'm grateful for the time we got with her as she had many health issues for a long time. 

Just when you think grief might be simple, like holding on to gratitude when "she was so sick for so long" is bittersweet, but adding the complication of asshat relatives reflecting the same lack of trustworthiness, framing and rehashing long-time similar memories absolutely SUCKS. It hurts. It hurts me just reading it. Ugh. I'm just thankful you have JV. You are clearly deserving of more respectful and loving consideration and I hope you'll heal on purpose further than you ever expected over the years.