Where did civilization come from?

[gilhooly]

Over 7000 thousand years ago my pagan ancestors built newgrange in Ireland. Soon after my ancestors started construction on Stone Henge in England. By 5000 years ago the greatest trading market was built centered on the British Isles, Central Europe and Scandinavia.

Since I was a child I was taught that civilization was the product of Greeks, Celts, Romans. Jews, Egyptians and Christians and other people from the east. I see myself as a member of western European civilization. Since those newcomers I just mentioned came along, everyone says they gave us civilization. WHY? We were hard at work creating civilization in the British Isles, 4000 years before anyone heard of them. By what insane reasoning would anyone want civilization created by a perfect God as the eastern idiots believe.

As a western pagan I know God is not perfect. I believe he is a hard working God who constantly strives to make things better. The North American plate is certainly not perfect. The plate tectonics are the worst on this planet. This planet is not perfect. Saturn looks a lot better with rings than our small miserable planet. This may be ugliest solar system God ever made for all you know.

The Hubble telescope consistently shows that God is at work building and remodeling the universe trying to make it look better. If God were perfect he would have made the universe perfect to begin with. The universe changes every second on the basis of free will. Whether it is God's, your or my free will I don't really care. Maybe our horoscopes determine our free will. I couldn't care less. The universe keeps changing constantly.

Like every intelligent pagan I believe the Garden Of Eden was in the British Isles. God would never choose a desert as a garden. He would pick the British Isles like any normal god would. The land is green and the climate is temperate. God kicked no one out of the Garden. We chose to wear clothes because winter is cold in the British Isles.

Please tell me you don't believe weird stories invented by Jews. No god asked Abraham to kill his son. No god killed the children of Egypt. They are family stories told by Jews to Jewish children to give them a sense of identity. I agree. Seven thousand years ago my pagan ancestors had a sense of identity and a deep burning pride in the British Isles.


As a pagan I am required to maintain peace. I must live my life as a man of conscience and free will. I am forbidden to judge anyone other than myself. Obviously I sin frequently. My conscience tells me that. Luckily since God is no more perfect than I am, I don't mind asking for God's help and forgiveness. As John Prine would say:
Father forgive us for what we must do
You forgive us we'll forgive you
Father forgive us for what we must do
We'll go whistlin' an a fishin' in a heaven

If you send out cards this Christmas, remind your friends and relatives that civilization began in the English speaking world. Please remember to invite non-members to join and support us in our work of advancing civilization. I know I sound like a crackpot but what the hell. I am gay and over 21 and can still vote. I have never been arrested or even accused of a crime. I was a terrific marine on the 500 yard line and knew I could joyfully kill someone who needed killing.

And good news. Since leaving the marines I have never felt the need to own a gun or a rifle. People are surprised by that. John you have always lived near black people. Doesn't that make you nervous. Not as long as they like the same music as me.

Currently I think some right-wing politicians who don't like gays should avoid me. Guys I really don't like bullies and feel they should be treated like rapists. They try to win by being disrespectful to you. Bounce your nose off his nose and tell him quietly to away. Go away or I will fucking kill you. Say it to his ear as if you want to kiss him. It has worked everytime for me. Even with guys bigger than me. Bullies and rapists never really want to die so they always leave. Make sure you are prepared to die when you start whispering to the guy.

Finally {hooray hooray he is going to stop this post} be careful using the word pagan to me. It is how I live my life. I have conscience and I use my free will. I will wind up in heaven or hell as a result of the choices I make. I make a habit of asking God for forgiveness on a daily basis.. I know I sin a lot. Again I apologize to GS members for my transgressions. I didn't join GS to offend anyone. Unfortunately the best laid plans of mice and men oft go astray.

[Inchante]

Hmmmm . . .

"What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea." -Mohandas Gandhi

But seriously, the ruins at Jericho predate the ruins you are talking about by around 2,000 years. Not that that has anything to do with a perfect god, just that it predates and thus precludes the sites you are talking about as the beginning of "civilization". But groups did tend to splinter off from each other, create their own religions, cultures, and languages. Although, several of the cultures you named above were pagan and had nothing to do with the idea of a single "perfect god".

Here is an article on the oldest known temple to date. It is in Turkey. I am sure there are older ruins out there. I don't suspect they will be found in Western Europe, however.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/09...42417.html

[gilhooly]

Wikipedia states this:
The level of advancement of a civilization is often measured by its progress in agriculture, long-distance trade, occupational specialization, and urbanism. Aside from these core elements, civilization is often marked by any combination of a number of secondary elements, including a developed transportation system, writing, standards of measurement (currency, etc.), contract and tort-based legal systems, characteristic art styles (which may pertain to specific cultures), monumental architecture, mathematics, science, sophisticated metallurgy, politics, and astronomy.

I underlined the reason why I consider civilization was advanced in the British Isles.
Evidence of human life starts in Africa to the best of my knowledge.
I do not equate human habitation with civilization.

[zeon]

I read up that the world was formed on five tribes and this is where we all started from many moons ago

kindest regards

zeon x

[Inchante]

I underlined the reason why I consider civilization was advanced in the British Isles.
Evidence of human life starts in Africa to the best of my knowledge.
I do not equate human habitation with civilization.

Ok, Gilhooly. I've learned from other posts that arguing with you is not a valuable use of time. So, if you want to believe that civilization started in Britain, you go right on ahead. I'll not stop you.