spotysocks Wrote:About two days ago i realized indeed it is not always easy to make the changes you need even if you really want to. A positive influence would help but in my case where i am now this is yet to be found.
However i ve joined some social and creative groups here in London. I ve signed up for dance lessons, also joined my local book club and trying to find evening classes on something fun , like making music, doing sports ect. I think being around with different people than i usually am maybe i will start enjoying myself a bit more and practice being more sociable again. At least for 2 secs once a week i ll wear my heart in my sleeve and if they think i am weird ... hmmm find another group or another heart. 
that is really a good way of dealing with the situation, it's very important to change the air a bit when you are feeling like you're not going in the right direction.
try to be relaxed and realize that there are a lot of good people in the world who can and will appreciate you, and your open heart. it's what makes you human after all!
here is a song i hope you will like, it's one of my favourites.
http://download.yousendit.com/712C329E7B208381
*hug*
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I remember when someone wrote that here as well and thought "what the fuck?"
I was in Japan four times for a total of about a year and a half, and must say I never felt a big acceptance for gays. It's been a good 10+ yeas since I've ben there so it might have changed, but Japan is an odd place.
There is a face they "show" to strangers and then the reality of what flows beneath. If you go through life only seeing the superficial, it is easy to be lulled into a false perception of the country and it's traditions. Like a married couple who acts al sweet then beats each other after the guests leave.
When I was in Japan being gay (for the japanese) existed on two levels. The way extroverted effeminate males, who played the role to it's utmost, and then the "normal" more closeted males who could easily recognize the other and do a bit of down low while still saving face.
The effeminate queens are tolerated much like over the top drag queens are when they are performing here. Otherwise any kind of scene was still very much closeted and fearful. Foreigners weren't even allowed in most gay bars. It would have brought too much attention and danger to those within.
Like I said it might be different now, but that was my experience. !!! But stay out of the steam room in the gym! As a foreigner you are fare game for them to make a move on, and those hands can be everywhere and No doesn't seem to mean no when you're foreign....yikes.
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Just wanted to add,
From what I saw it had not progressed to what we are used to. A meeting of equals in a real relationship that happens to be among two men. It was very much still locked into that "Who plays the woman" concept. Not even the silly "top or bottom" concept we see here often, but actually trying to push being gay into the traditional man/woman concept. The play acting was still the major dominating factor when meeting someone.
I hope it's progressed further than that since then. But like I said, it's a hard place to buck the ideas of society.
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i find it very strange that effeminates are more tolerated than straight-acting gays. i guess it all comes down to pushing the image of something you are afraid of as far from your own image so that one can not be associated with a fag, queer, queen, homo etc.
we hate what we fear. we fear what we don't understand. we don't understand what we don't know. we don't know what we don't have contact with. and we don't have contact with what we fear, and the circle is complete. that is why, with every person i meet, i try to break the circle. let people find that i am, first and foremost, a human being. THEN that i am gay. let them know me well first, before they pass judgement on me for a thing i have no control of, like my sexuality. although, in all honesty, i like being gay! :biggrin:
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I'm also not sure if "more tolerated" is exactly correct.
It"s more like the embarrassed giggles over the crazy drunk uncle or the aunt who wears her underwear over her dress. Straight acting gays should "know better" while the huge queens are laughed more (uncomfortably) AT than WITH.
Tolerated, yes, but like a pet monkey is tolerated. "See how it's almost human?"
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Michael Wrote:I'm also not sure if "more tolerated" is exactly correct.
It"s more like the embarrassed giggles over the crazy drunk uncle or the aunt who wears her underwear over her dress. Straight acting gays should "know better" while the huge queens are laughed more (uncomfortably) AT than WITH.
Tolerated, yes, but like a pet monkey is tolerated. "See how it's almost human?"
that just makes me want to puke. :mad: i have a friend who doesn't know i'm gay and who is basically misogynous, racist and homophobic - all things i dislike in people. why are we friends? because we live together in the same house, and because i really feel he's not a bad guy deep down, he just has some stupid prejudices. very immature of him, still i decided i would try to help him overcome these things because i feel he can. already i feel he has changed a lot, he is starting to realize he is being very stupid about all these thoughts. i believe it's also the fact that he has not had contact with gays or black people, and his entourage promovated an inferior image of women. i was of course apalled with many things he said, but i think he is really coming around on such issues, which can only please me. still, this is just one person... the world is full of people much worse than this, which is so so sad. how one can pass judgement like this on other people before they've known them is beyond me. i would never dare it...
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Individual raindrops make a sea.
I've experienced this many times over the years. Hate and ignorance are not always the same thing. Some of my very best friends today started out as "homophobes" albeit just ignorant ones.
Story: At my Gym in Dusseldorf there was this young kid, German/American. He was 16 (but looked 25) and had ben raised in Kentucky with his dad. Since he also spoke english we used to talk a lot at the gym. Because of his accent, I took to calling him farm boy. He in turn started calling me queer boy. All in good fun, Fred and I are totally out and hide nothing.
So this went on for ...weeks, months.... until one day I was alone at the gym. He asked where my friend was. At the time I was training with another friend of mine, so asked if he meant Robert or my boyfriend? ..... ...... ..... "Boyfriend?" ...... "Boyfriend?" "Yes, which one, robert the dark headed one or Fred, my blonde boyfriend??"
"You're gay?!" Seriously, I felt like I'd waked into some weird show. "What? Of course dumb ass, which one, Fred or robert?" He got so worked up he LEFT the gym.
Next day he came back and apologized, but said he had NO IDEA I was gay! Said he had just been calling me queer boy as a joke. He was in a total panic. Spent the night going over and over things in his head. Said he and his friends made fun of fags all the time, but he didn't really KNOW any and now knowing me had totally changed his perceptions. He couldn't believe what an ass he'd been to others based on stupid cliches and ignorance.
That is usually how it goes. Most people base their images on cliches and what others (with as much knowledge I might ad) have told them. Once they see the humanity, they almost always change their minds.
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that's a very nice "conversion" story there! what a strange fellow, but i'm glad he came around! hope my friend will as well...
hmmm, do you think that maybe some parents accept their offspring being gay because they don't really know them that well? i mean, most kids/teenagers have completely different social and family personas, refuse to connect with the parents etc., and, on the other hand, many parents don't try to really approach them on the same level, to really understand and know them. the generation gap is a serious cause for family fights, so why not for this? with friends one usually relates on deeper levels - common experiences, attitudes etc., but with an "unprepared" parent it's much more difficult. the fault is from both sides but i feel that parents really have more of the responsibility. i am very fortunate to have the best mom in the world, she is amazing and i am sure that when i will tell her she will accept me, but she will be sad as she will say my life will be much more difficult than others' (to be read: straights). the rest of my family... still a msytery! :confused:
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I thnik it has to do a lot with their own upbringings, ego and education.
It's hard to realize sometimes, but parents are just people too. There are so many variables at first. Fear for us, shame for themselves, guilt sometimes and a host of other things.
The real test is not the coming out (that can go balls up even for the most open minded parents) but once things have cooled down and they've had some time to take stock.
For most parents it's also a learning experience. Up until we come out most had next to nothing to do with homosexuality. How they go from the initial telling has a lot to do with their own individual character and the connection they have with their child.
The good thing is that the more "normal" being gay becomes, the more general knowledge people have, which in turn makes the initial shock that much less.
I think though the real test is, again, how able someone is in putting the needs of someone else before their own. Like we've aid today, some can se things fro several directions, while others are unwilling to change their perspectives....regardless.
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yes, what you are saying is a very accurate rendition of what the parent - gay son/daughter relationship evolves... of course parents are people too, and really i will understand their reactions when they will find out i am gay, more than they will realize it. and i am prepared for it, because i know the cause. what i was thinking of was that if parents and offspring would really find a proper channel of communication, the blow would not be so great. and in this relationship, the parents, having more experience and being - supposedly - wiser, have to take more of the responsibility of establishing a connection. many teens are raging, set themselves up society, against the folks, are confused etc. a mature person has been through all that and lived to tell the tale, so to speak. if they would not forget that they were like that at some point, perhaps they would have more chances of connecting with their children. and then maybe the teenagers could relate to them better too and start to trust them more. it's a very complicated putting yourself out there / positive feedback relationship, which parents have the better instruments to handle because of the age difference. so, working with the generation gap, not against it!  mile: in time parents can ultimately accept their gay offspring, but really there has to be communication after the coming out, not severed ties. the period immediately after is indeed crucial. times are changing and perhaps more and more families become united, but then perhaps not. internet, new technologies, a continuously changing environment, new ways of socializing - will the unity of family be stronger than these things that can cause rifts in communication? very difficult to say. also, the gay world is getting more an more exposure, but it all depends on the image being presented. many people follow stereotypes, others don't. it's all a matter of what kind of upbringing and personality your folks have. a flip of the coin. so many factors to take into account... all revolving around the idea of communicating with parents / communicating with friends.
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