(06-07-2021, 10:51 PM)Chase Wrote: See, this is why "moderates" aren't the answer. If a far right nutter butter wants to lock up all politicians who certified Trump and the Democrats don't, what's the "moderate" or "middle-ground" or even "compromise" to that? Lock up half of them?

Republicans have been blatantly cheating in elections. One was even in charge of certifying the very election he was running in (see this link) - and he coincidently threw out a bunch of votes that leaned towards his opponent. What's the "moderate" position to this? Let half of them cheat?

"Far left" Dems like AOC aren't what's causing the demise of the Democratic party. It's these so-called moderates who allow the Republicans to continually shift father and farther to the right, and in doing so, make the Democrats shift farther to the right as well.

Are US citizens ever willing to admit their system of government isn't full democracy?

(06-08-2021, 01:33 AM)Karl Rand Wrote:

(06-07-2021, 10:51 PM)Chase Wrote: See, this is why "moderates" aren't the answer. If a far right nutter butter wants to lock up all politicians who certified Trump and the Democrats don't, what's the "moderate" or "middle-ground" or even "compromise" to that? Lock up half of them?

Republicans have been blatantly cheating in elections. One was even in charge of certifying the very election he was running in (see this link) - and he coincidently threw out a bunch of votes that leaned towards his opponent. What's the "moderate" position to this? Let half of them cheat?

"Far left" Dems like AOC aren't what's causing the demise of the Democratic party. It's these so-called moderates who allow the Republicans to continually shift father and farther to the right, and in doing so, make the Democrats shift farther to the right as well.

Are US citizens ever willing to admit their system of government isn't full democracy?

Raises hand.

(06-07-2021, 10:51 PM)Chase Wrote: See, this is why "moderates" aren't the answer. If a far right nutter butter wants to lock up all politicians who certified Biden and the Democrats don't, what's the "moderate" or "middle-ground" or even "compromise" to that? Lock up half of them?

Republicans have been blatantly cheating in elections. One was even in charge of certifying the very election he was running in (see this link) - and he coincidently threw out a bunch of votes that leaned towards his opponent. What's the "moderate" position to this? Let half of them cheat?

"Far left" Dems like AOC aren't what's causing the demise of the Democratic party. It's these so-called moderates who allow the Republicans to continually shift father and farther to the right, and in doing so, make the Democrats shift farther to the right as well.

I'm not so sure that moderates are the problem. Moderate does not equate to middleground on issues.

(06-08-2021, 12:00 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: I'm not so sure that moderates are the problem. Moderate does not equate to middleground on issues.

Then what does moderate mean? When the Democrats have shifted so far right that they are in indistinguishable from devout Randians, and the Republicans are even further to the right to that, what will "moderate" be? So-called moderates from the Democratic party increasingly say that in times of crises, be it a pandemic or a demagogue like Trump, the answer is to stray away from "experimentation" and towards "moderation." It's no different than when Newt Gingrich said "now is not the time for social experimentation" when he said same-sex marriage shouldn't be legalized in a time of "the war on terror."

Watch as the Republicans seize control of the House and Senate in midterms, and maybe even the 2024 presidency. It will all be because "moderate" Manchin allowed the Republicans to strip Democrat leaning voters of voting rights, yet the Democrat establishment will say it's the "radicals" fault.

I think a good question is what is in it for Manchin to vote against the bill? I don't know the answer so it is not rhetorical or anything. Frankly, I see "moderates" being those who might support one issue and not another, simply that they don't vote entirely one way or another....mind you I'm talking about people (voters) and not politicians in this sense. Politicians voting against the majority on a particular bill is definitely different than you or me voting in an election. Perhaps I am wrong. But I don't think expecting people to "fall in line" when it comes to voting is right. Now I will be upfront, I voted in the democratic primary and I voted for all democrats in the general election, but I am an unaffiliated voter. However, if there were a republican running in a local or state election that I actually supported for some reason I would certainly vote for that individual...of course there weren't in this case. We have some of the worst republican representatives in this part of the state. I mean I get it and voting blue in the district where I live doesn't change anything.

What I am saying is that I can't someone to vote blue when they feel strongly about an issue that they disagree with and feel that they need to vote red. I disagree with most conservatives on issues and I don't like the things they seem to prioritize, more so than I dislike what democrats are prioritizing, seems like they ought to be doing a lot more since they do have a majority right now and they're setting themselves up to lose mid-terms and it won't be due to any voting laws states pass. Simply that mid-terms usually have less turnout and the Biden administration has been kind of a disappointment, granted it takes time to make progress and push bills through Congress, so maybe the picture will be different come this time next year.

I agree, there is not any middleground on issues, just as there's really no middle ground on say abortion. You can't really be for women's rights when you're going to tell them what they can or cannot do with their body. However, one can have a strong opinion about it one way or the other and it be the reason they vote one way or another even if they would have voted otherwise.

@InbetweenDreams
"seems like they ought to be doing a lot more since they do have a majority right now"
That's what has democrats pulling their hair out. With the Senate rules the way they are 90% or more of the things democrats would like to do are DOA. Of course most voters are oblivious to this so as you say come 2022 they will vote to change again and we'll continue on the merry-go-round. I will take exception to your assertion that this will not be affected by voter suppression. Georgia is a case in point. Rafael Warnock is up again after winning a razor thin margin in 2020. The new Georgia law limits voting on Sundays which has always been a strong suit for churches, particularly those with large Black congregations, getting people to the polls. It's hard to deny this will directly impact a sitting Black senator who also happens to be a member of the clergy.

@calgor I suppose I should amend what I said. Yes, laws aimed to suppress voters can and do have an effect. However, I feel that the mid term election will be disappointing given that people generally don't vote and the lackluster performance so far...but we can try to remain optimistic.

You ought to have heard the ads they were playing on the radio against Warnock... Absolutely disgusting.

(06-07-2021, 06:36 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: Hmm kind of like how there is a certain amount of rodent in peanut butter...


I suppose there are politicians that are honest but they usually don't stay that way.


God I hate Rand Paul, just the sight of him and I wonder how the fuck does Kentucky elect these examples of human excrement?

I'll see your Rand Paul and raise you a Louie Gohmert

https://www.sacurrent.com/the-daily/arch...rths-orbit

Oh god, he's a fucking idiot... I have an idea for a thread, something like Pokemon Go but with ridiculous politicians instead.

Makes me think of a Linus Torvalds insult...

Quote:How did they not die as babies, considering
that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?

(06-09-2021, 07:15 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote: Oh god, he's a fucking idiot... I have an idea for a thread, something like Pokemon Go but with ridiculous politicians instead.

Makes me think of a Linus Torvalds insult...

Quote:How did they not die as babies, considering
that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?

I had the same idea. Something along the lines of You Can't Make This Stuff Up. I'll have to check later to see if someone already started anything like this.