(08-24-2021, 12:48 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote:

(08-23-2021, 02:09 AM)Adam88 Wrote: As for the vax, you can still get covid and have all your shots. Thus, you're doubling your chances of negative side effects by getting the shot, and getting covid, if your case is based upon side effects.

That's the the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

It sounds dumb because it is misinformed, definitely, like most anti-vaxxers (or anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaxxers) are.

I don't know how much properly-sourced data has Adam been looking at, but it has been clear from clinical trials (published) and data on hospitalizations (look for your local info from the appropriate sources) that vaccines are effective in preventing serious disease, if not in preventing transmission. Since the worst outcomes of developing COVID-19, including nasty complications like blood clots, come from the aggressive inflammatory process when the virus multiplies and spreads uncontrolled to the lungs, it is rather obvious that getting a vaccine in no way can multiply or have additive effects on complications. If you get the vaccine, you are controlling the infection from the get go, so you also prevent the worst outcomes. 

It would be interesting, on a side note, to study what happenes to those vaccinated few that did develop serious conditions. I read not long ago (gotta remember where though) that at least a handful of those were simply not carrying neutralizing antibodies, so it makes sense. Whether it's because of age or from having a weaker response to the vaccine, it would be good to look into.  

His statement also doesn't make sense from a vaccine strategy point of view because the vaccines used in the United States are not even the SARS-CoV-2 virus in full, inactivated or otherwise. Pfizer and Moderna use the mRNA sequence coding for the surface Spike protein, which the full viral particle uses to bind the ACE-2 receptors expressed in the cells of the respiratory tract. AstraZeneca goes a slightly different route using a non-replicating adenovirus to present the Spike protein to the immune cells monitoring tissues. None of those options even involve a full SARS-CoV-2 viral particle, so there is really no base for that argument. You could not develop the kind of complications associated to full viral infection from a vaccine shot. 

Of course there are other side effects related to the vaccine process. A few cases of mild myocarditis in Pfizer recipients, which then recovered and of course the most mediatic one in AstraZeneca and the clots. Of course the incidence of clots are a far cry from those that developed them upon receiving the vaccine vs the ones that had that complication because of SARS-CoV-2 infection. In general these side effects have been in the 1-2 per every 100000, so very very low and not comparable to the outcomes death, long term complications or otherwise that come from SARS-CoV-2 infection without any protection. 

Ah, in any case, always happy to leave some reading material for anyone interested.

Published results in effectiveness and safety trials for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, Kaur & Gupta 2020 and Fathizade et al. 2021 are reviews on vaccine development from 2020 and 2021. I especially like the last one, it's quite comprehensive.

Not sure the last ones are open source but here, SciHub should do the trick. 

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.virusres.2020.198114

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijbiomac.2021.08.076

(08-24-2021, 03:23 PM)ChadCoxRox Wrote: Your perception is clearly skewed toward a preconceived intent to hate dude.  I clearly said over 90% if the ones who are dying with C19 are unvaxxed. You spun it way out to suit your clear trolling agenda. Fuck off.

"Fuck off" isn't an argument. And we were talking about people like your earlier in this thread, who rage when someone doesn't take the vax. You must have some serious control issues. My body, my rights.

(08-24-2021, 04:50 PM)Insertnamehere Wrote:

(08-24-2021, 12:48 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote:

(08-23-2021, 02:09 AM)Adam88 Wrote: As for the vax, you can still get covid and have all your shots. Thus, you're doubling your chances of negative side effects by getting the shot, and getting covid, if your case is based upon side effects.

That's the the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

It sounds dumb because it is misinformed, definitely, like most anti-vaxxers (or anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaxxers) are.



His statement also doesn't make sense from a vaccine strategy point of view because the vaccines used in the United States are not even the SARS-CoV-2 virus in full, inactivated or otherwise. Pfizer and Moderna use the mRNA sequence coding for the surface Spike protein, which the full viral particle uses to bind the ACE-2 receptors expressed in the cells of the respiratory tract. AstraZeneca goes a slightly different route using a non-replicating adenovirus to present the Spike protein to the immune cells monitoring tissues. None of those options even involve a full SARS-CoV-2 viral particle, so there is really no base for that argument. You could not develop the kind of complications associated to full viral infection from a vaccine shot. 

I'm not sure what you took from my argument, but what I'm saying is that, seeing as how the vax doesn't prevent getting the virus, it means you still have the same chance of catching it. Then to top it off, you still have the possibility of the negative side effects (however unlikely) from the vax, so you have the negative of the virus, and the negative of the vax. Where as I, as a relatively healthy 33 year old male, stand a huge possibility of surviving the virus unscathed (like everyone else I know), the vax to me is simply adding another possible negative variable (vax) in order to (possibly) prevent another negative variable (virus), that I'm less likely than most to even come across. 

And again, theres still no long term studies for it's reaction to the human body over time. Thats a big question that can't be answered, and has happened with countless other drugs and treatments. 

Oh, and fuck this other guy ITT. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I think things like the polio vax etc were amazing and world changing. And I'm not even anti-c19 vax. If you want it, take it. You can even be one of those complete douche bags that fucking tattoos it on their arm for all I care. But I'm not going to, because theres no long term reports, and I don't trust anything the government pushes this hard. Simple as.

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(08-24-2021, 03:26 PM)ChadCoxRox Wrote: BTW, Michigan's data at michigan.gov is very detailed. See for yourself, straight off the state's website:

Ӣ Are vaccinations working? Yes! Ӣ A larger proportion of those who become cases (98%), are hospitalized (95%), and died (95%) from COVID are unvaccinated

Just one doc off Michegan's data site for C19 at michigan.gov

I don't give a fuck what the government website says. This states gov is a fucking joke. Gretchen Whitmer is out leadership. Literally the most corrupt, power obsessed, fascistic woman in the state. 

And again, no long term studies.

Don't mind me here, this is the jokes section so I'm just going to post these two funny gifs 

(08-24-2021, 08:27 PM)Chase Wrote: Don't mind me here, this is the jokes section so I'm just going to post these two funny gifs 

Two of my favorite characters in comedy.

(08-24-2021, 08:13 PM)Adam88 Wrote:

(08-23-2021, 02:09 AM)Adam88 Wrote: As for the vax, you can still get covid and have all your shots. Thus, you're doubling your chances of negative side effects by getting the shot, and getting covid, if your case is based upon side effects.

I'm not sure what you took from my argument, but what I'm saying is that, seeing as how the vax doesn't prevent getting the virus, it means you still have the same chance of catching it. Then to top it off, you still have the possibility of the negative side effects (however unlikely) from the vax, so you have the negative of the virus, and the negative of the vax. Where as I, as a relatively healthy 33 year old male, stand a huge possibility of surviving the virus unscathed (like everyone else I know), the vax to me is simply adding another possible negative variable (vax) in order to (possibly) prevent another negative variable (virus), that I'm less likely than most to even come across. 

And again, theres still no long term studies for it's reaction to the human body over time. Thats a big question that can't be answered, and has happened with countless other drugs and treatments. 

Oh, and fuck this other guy ITT. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I think things like the polio vax etc were amazing and world changing. And I'm not even anti-c19 vax. If you want it, take it. You can even be one of those complete douche bags that fucking tattoos it on their arm for all I care. But I'm not going to, because theres no long term reports, and I don't trust anything the government pushes this hard. Simple as.

---

I don't give a fuck what the government website says. This states gov is a fucking joke. Gretchen Whitmer is out leadership. Literally the most corrupt, power obsessed, fascistic woman in the state. 

And again, no long term studies.

Also no long-term studies about those surviving COVID “unscathed”. What will happen in the future to those??? Will you wish you’d taken the vax once your dick falls off? 

You’re just another news-cherry-picker who only wants to bolster your enlightened preconceived notions that 

COVID is no problem, you don’t need the vaccine and

if it is, it won’t affect you and you still don’t need the vaccine and didn’t you read on the web that the vax bla, bla, bla however 

if you get infected you’re young and healthy and unlikely to get really sick from it, so you still think you can do without vax because a talking head on Fox, OAN bla, bla, bla

and if you do get really sick, have to be hospitalized, intubated”¦. getting the vaccine still wasn’t worth the risk because there aren’t any long term studies. 

The virus can be transmitted through the mouth and the nose, but the biggest problems come from assholes.

Thanks Chase, I was seriously thinking the same thing but got a bit tired of the cultural depravity.

(08-25-2021, 02:07 AM)Bhp91126 Wrote: Also no long-term studies about those surviving COVID “unscathed”. What will happen in the future to those??? Will you wish you’d taken the vax once your dick falls off? 

You’re just another news-cherry-picker who only wants to bolster your enlightened preconceived notions that 

COVID is no problem, you don’t need the vaccine and

if it is, it won’t affect you and you still don’t need the vaccine and didn’t you read on the web that the vax bla, bla, bla however 

if you get infected you’re young and healthy and unlikely to get really sick from it, so you still think you can do without vax because a talking head on Fox, OAN bla, bla, bla

and if you do get really sick, have to be hospitalized, intubated”¦. getting the vaccine still wasn’t worth the risk because there aren’t any long term studies. 

The virus can be transmitted through the mouth and the nose, but the biggest problems come from assholes.

Lets say the vax and the virus both have bad long term effects. Why would I take one which would grantee I'd have problems down the road, rather than not taking it because there's no guarantee I'm even going to get the virus. You're taking a definite negative over a possible negative. And I agree, assholes like you that freak the fuck out when someone else doesn't take your own medical advice. Whats the matter? You got the shot. You're safe, right? Then back the fuck off and mind your business. 

The brass tacks are I don't even NEED a reason not to take it, and I damn sure don't owe you or anyone else one. Deal with it. Go slurp up more CNN fear mongering. Go lock yourself in a basement, quarantine for life for all I care. You aren't stopping me from living mine how I see fit, and you can shove your vax right up your ass.

(08-25-2021, 02:18 AM)ChadCoxRox Wrote: Thanks Chase, I was seriously thinking the same thing but got a bit tired of the cultural depravity.

Then come up with an argument or leave.

(08-25-2021, 04:10 AM)Adam88 Wrote:

(08-25-2021, 02:07 AM)Bhp91126 Wrote: Also no long-term studies about those surviving COVID “unscathed”. What will happen in the future to those??? Will you wish you’d taken the vax once your dick falls off? 

You’re just another news-cherry-picker who only wants to bolster your enlightened preconceived notions that 

COVID is no problem, you don’t need the vaccine and

if it is, it won’t affect you and you still don’t need the vaccine and didn’t you read on the web that the vax bla, bla, bla however 

if you get infected you’re young and healthy and unlikely to get really sick from it, so you still think you can do without vax because a talking head on Fox, OAN bla, bla, bla

and if you do get really sick, have to be hospitalized, intubated”¦. getting the vaccine still wasn’t worth the risk because there aren’t any long term studies. 

The virus can be transmitted through the mouth and the nose, but the biggest problems come from assholes.

Lets say the vax and the virus both have bad long term effects. Why would I take one which would grantee I'd have problems down the road, rather than not taking it because there's no guarantee I'm even going to get the virus. You're taking a definite negative over a possible negative. And I agree, assholes like you that freak the fuck out when someone else doesn't take your own medical advice. Whats the matter? You got the shot. You're safe, right? Then back the fuck off and mind your business. 

The brass tacks are I don't even NEED a reason not to take it, and I damn sure don't owe you or anyone else one. Deal with it. Go slurp up more CNN fear mongering. Go lock yourself in a basement, quarantine for life for all I care. You aren't stopping me from living mine how I see fit, and you can shove your vax right up your ass.

I sense a deep educational disturbance in you resulting from an exclusively right wing news consumption. I’d recommend a more balanced approach not just one that only claims to be fair and balanced. Occasionally reading some background or analysis pieces might help too, instead of regurgitating Fox opinion pieces that even they deem entertainment.

I don’t care if you get vaxxed or not, however I think the nonsense you’re spouting needs rebuking, in the interest of other people you don’t care about.